Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 23

[Geshe Michael Roach]
[?] chants Rinpoche chants Rinpoche chants Yeah, thank you for the logo. Where is it now?

[Student]
Thank English Rob. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Is that you?

[Student]
Yep, English Rob.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And what was the text? I sent it to John Francis for one of those ceremonial boxes that were in your university. Oh, cool.

That's cool. Yeah. It's a good grade.

I'll burn it in or something.

[Student]
No, totally. We saw pictures of the boxes back then. Oh, really?

It's kind of actual gold. But yeah, it's really good.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Try and make it... Yeah, it's cool. Okay, I think this is big enough.

[Student]
Oh, the divisions of karma and classical are predominant. You mean the three parts of the division or three types of dividing it? You probably could do either.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I don't know. This is what I have. You buckled.

Say again. What is your question again? Is this the right way to write?

Yeah, I thought it's three divisions. Okay, the next one.

[Student]
How do you prevent a definite karma?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Wait, what was the answer to that?

[Student]
Oh, that one. Virtues. Virtues number two and the second number three.

Well, it's not exactly a set, right?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No? You've got to distinguish between gewa and sönam. Oh, gewa and sönam?

And mi gewa and sönam mayinpa. [?] and sönam and sönam mayinpa. We usually say merit.

Merit, yeah. So that means non-merit, I guess. That's not going to pass the weight.

[Student]
No, non-merit. Do you have any non-merit? Virtues.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We've got non-merit. Virtues, non-virtues. We don't sell cigarettes here.

[Student]
So definite karma can be applied to both virtues and non-virtues.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it's interesting. It cannot be part of the three. Is that what you're saying?

Well, all I'm saying is the three are not together in a group.

[Student]
That's not usually a set. And I think that the third part of this would actually be lu ma ten.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, right. Oh, it should be lu ma ten rather than the different karma. The neutral karma, right.

I mean, did you have a list in your text that was gewa, mi gewa, and sönam mayinpa? I think so, something, yeah. Interesting.

Gewa, mi gewa. There's another division of the three. That's karma after this life, and this life, and future lives.

Yeah, right. After that. There was a footnote that we had.

[Student]
There's black, white, and black, white.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Black, white, and black, white. Karma should put a picture of it. Yeah.

[Student]
Black, white, and black, white.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This one, yeah, here it is.

[Student]
Let me show you this one. Black and white. Like karma.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So, we have this text. Sönam gele soksum yite. [?] gewa gewe le de sönam [?].

And then mi gewa le sönam mayinpe le. Ah, sönam mayinpe. Kam gong me le mi gewe.

Mi gewe. Mi gewe, yeah. So, I'm actually referring to this mi gewe.

Am I veritable?

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, we did it. So, sönam gele. Oh, probably I have to ask the question based on this, right?

Sönam gele soksum.

[Student]
And that was karma in the two higher realms, too. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Probably the more detailed realm.

[Student]
So, this is three types of sönam.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, three types of sönam. Virtue, it should be virtue rather than karma. We usually translate sönam as merit.

Because you're going to have to probably pick one word for gewa and one word for sönam to distinguish. Oh, to distinguish the two? And sönam is usually said as merit.

Sönam is normally merit, right? Yeah. And gewa, virtue.

So, virtue, not merit. Yeah, so what's mi gewa sönam?

[Student]
Non-virtuous merit.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, what's mi gewe sönam?

[Student]
Actually, non-good karma in the desire realm. Bad karma in the desire realm. And unshifting karma in the form and formless realm.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ah, so the first two are in the desire realm.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And then the definite is in the, what do you call that, in the form, formless realm.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So, this should be...

[Student]
The wording is interesting.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. In the formless realm. Oh, so it's not sönam.

Yeah, somehow it seems like it's a division of the sönam, right? Yeah, is he quoting Abhidharma here? This is from Abhidharma.

I don't know. This is from Abhidharma. It's the second part of something.

Oh, here? Oh, yeah. Really?

Okay. So, yeah.

[Student]
Maybe Stanley can tell us this.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yes, Stanley.

[Student]
It is a quote from Abhidharma. What can I do for you?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, could be, yeah. This could be... That could be a first part.

Well, but I think the reason why we pick up this one is because we wanted to know the three divisions, right?

[Student]
Yeah, we're talking about sönam.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, we're talking about sönam. I think this part, right?

[Student]
Right. It's sönam because it's [?].

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Oh, we are basically a part of this, right? We are talking about the...

We suddenly change our stance from the... We were talking about sönam in the other sense and then here we jump into the sönam as defined in the Abhidharma. That's a question?

Sounds like we got to move on. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Okay. Okay, the next one. How do we prevent the definite karma from happening in the lower realms?

Definite karma. Can you get a clue? Say again?

[Student]
Can you get a clue?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, very close. By doing four powers. According to Buddha, what is the ultimate antidote of the four powers?

Studying emptiness. Understanding emptiness. Okay, the word.

[Student]
Miyowa. Yeah, un-divertible. It cannot be done with the...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Kama. Upper realms? No, this is the emperor.

This is for Stanley. That's all? Oh, no.

Oh, yeah. One more. Definite.

Must be experience. Must be experience. Okay, that's all.

Thank you.

[Student]
Yay!

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, you've got a plane. I've got a plane. I say let's jump.

[Student]
Alright.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Adam, where is Adam? He's got the plane. How are you going to correct me from over there?

He's going to be the backseat driver. Who's sitting there?

[Student]
Adam's going to sit there once there's more room.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You can't correct the pilot if he's sitting over there. It's like you're in the toilet instead of the jump seat. Okay, go.

Okay. Yeah, this is cool. If something is...

[Student]
Translate.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The fresh karma, which is the second link of the... Yeah. Yeah, it's the second link.

Yeah, if something is the fresh karma, which is the second link. Very nice. You guys are going to give me trouble later.

It must be motivated by ignorance. It must be motivated by... Right?

Misunderstanding, which motivates it. It must be motivated by misunderstanding, which motivates it. Okay, okay.

But here's the key right here. Fresh.

[Student]
Freshly.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
After all, it is fresh karma. Okay? So now we need a...

We need a counterexample, which is... Something that is not freshly motivated.

[Student]
It's the second link.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's motivated by the first link. By the first link. And it's not fresh.

And not fresh. I like your chin chin. I like your chin chin.

Chin chin. The key here is this word here, which is confusing. Okay?

And by the way, a [?] can't come off [?].

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Not possible. This can't be [?]. So it must be part...

It's either a miscarding or it's part of something. It's not equal odds.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. So this is the instrumental. Now somebody...

And you guys know this word over here. This is the eon. Million years.

Zillion years. You can say zillion years. Okay?

[Student]
And this is instrumental.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Somebody tell me.

[Student]
I'll give you a clue.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's found in the name of chakra.

[Student]
Wide expanse, vast expanse. Thousand?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. A hundred.

[Student]
Oh yeah, a hundred.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
One hundred thousand. Okay. So...

Bardu Chöpa means there's an interval between Bardu Chöpa. This Chö is... This is an idiom, right?

This Chö is related to Dorje Chö. Chö. Cut.

So Bardu Chöpa means cut off by an interval. Separated by an interval. Bardu Chöpa of a hundred eons.

Okay? Between. Okay?

Until. Bardu. You get the result.

Okay. So we have a result. We have a karma that's...

We have a karma that's been motivated by the first link of misunderstanding. Right? And until it's going to ripen into its result, it's going to be...

There's going to be an interval of a hundred eons.

[Student]
It's that fresh.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's that stale. Not fresh. It's like some of the stuff in my refrigerator.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And it is second... It is second link. Okay?

It is second link. So a fresh karma, meaning a newly planted karma, but whose result is not going to ripen for a hundred eons.

[Student]
We're talking about beginningless time. You could grab any measure of time and call it fresh.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's true. Oh, yeah. It's just a blink of an eye.

Good job. [?], are you telling me it's... Your definition fits it.

Are you telling me your definition fits it? Because you mentioned fresh. Newly.

Okay? Well, why do you say that? Because it's second link.

I just said it was second link. And then we're going to get a quotation from Sutra. No way.

Please read. This is a very famous quotation. But don't laugh.

As if it were a water from the rivers, it can get into many mountains. It really is a sutra, which is unusual. Not because Kedrup Tenpa Dargye tends to quote such stuff he heard in the debate ground, I think. And this one happens to be, you know, often times there's [?], right? People made verses from sutras. Is that air-conditioning?

Let's not get anybody sicker. By the way, I like how he phrased it. I like how he phrased it.

Okay? So try to do that. Ready?

If you go to the kids' school at the monastery, which we support. They just sit there and they go, and they have no idea what's going on for like eight hours. This is education.

So translate line by line. Do it slowly. Just think about it.

By the way, lu chen is the same as sem chen. The body, or the sentient being. Anybody with a body.

The lay of beings, for the length of a hundred kalpas, even for the length of a hundred kalpas. Chusawa, anybody know? Very, very, very, very famous idiom for karma.

It's just used for karma. Law of karma, right? Oh yeah, it is one of the laws.

It doesn't just go away. You do something bad, then you're hoping, oh man, it's been like six months, nothing happened. So you're like, maybe it just went away.

I do that. So for a billion years it was sitting in the [?]. So you've got to learn that.

Chu misawa means just go away. Sawa means eat, right? By the way, this is the verse that's used to prove that.

Tsokshing dula babpa na. This is an idiom also, dula bab. You know, what's pap?

It means when the time comes. Dula bab, when the time comes. In English we say when the time comes.

And tsok means all the causes and conditions have come together. When all the conditions have gathered, the result has to arrive. What's the has to here?

Ni. Ni means must be. Must be, no exception.

Totally has to be. I gave you all the information here. This is a text similar to [?] text. Actually I did that. Oh, you already did it? Yeah, I don't know why, but maybe, I think it appeared in the book.

You did it freshly?

[Student]
Just a thousand kalpas ago.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Anyway, Karmashataka is very similar to Karma Vibhanga. It's called the Book of Karmas. You want me to show the screen?

Yeah, okay. You want to take the plane? I'm leaving.

That's scary. How to make Geshe Michael happy. Make a good Indian chai.

What is a good chai? Correct, correct spicing. The milk is being boiled properly.

Okay, somebody find something wrong with it.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Should it be three hyphens? The bottom one. Beginner?

[Student]
Anybody?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Wait, let's go through from the beginning. Okay, first of all, bampo. That's just a measure of of syllables.

And it's a byte count. It's an ancient byte count. It was a serious thing, because they didn't want people to add things or take away things, so they gave it a byte count.

[Student]
This has this many syllables.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This text has this many syllables. Is it only in Indian books? I've never seen bampo referred to as bampo text.

So, just take out bampo. It probably has more than bampo dangpo. It probably has 20 bampos or something.

He just hit the first one.

[Student]
Here in the English translation, he also has it as part one.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, we're going to talk about that. Just take it out. That means you have to take out part one.

Part one also? I see.

[Student]
So there's no part two.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's not in two parts, I don't believe so. Take it out of the English title also. There's two problems with the Tibetans.

The dash? The dash is misplaced. But there's another problem.

Misplaced, I see. And this is going to be the hardest thing for you guys. Is it?

[Student]
Yeah, now, numbers.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Don't put a hyphen.

[Student]
Don't put a hyphen.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But there's another problem here.

[Student]
What about the folio? Should there just be one X? Should it be capital?

No.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, there's no such thing as capital. Now, in the Kangyur and Tengyur, there will always be a range of pages. You see?

This page to that page. In a Sungbum text, it's just the total number of pages. Why?

Why the difference? Because it's getting cut out of the text? Yeah, the Tengyur is always pulled out of a volume.

Volumes have an average of about... 5,000 divided by 316 texts each or something. You see, the volumes are artificial.

It's like the collected works of Shakespeare. Then each volume has five plates in it or something. So you've got to tell the page range.

But most Sungbum texts are stand-alone. What's the purpose of putting the total page numbers at the end of a Sungbum text? It's just a byte count, really.

We used a book that had 136 folios. If you want to look at the same book, make sure you have a file that has 136 folios. That's all.

But in the Kangyur and Tengyur, you've got to say it starts here in this volume and it goes to here in this volume. Also, I noticed the Tokjö Barwa [?] also has the same problem. A bug?

I don't know. Maybe it's from me or something. That should have a range of pages.

[Student]
We have an A and a B and an unmarked. We have an A and a B and an unmarked in the database. Unlettered doesn't seem...

So the A and the B could be a part one and part two.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It could be. Yeah, it could be. He could be right about the part A.

Were you looking at that? There's another problem here. The volume number in Tibetan.

This is a foreign word. It has to be italicized. Square brackets?

Yeah, because you can't put a parenthesis within a parenthesis. You see what I mean? It's already inside a parenthesis, so you've got to put square brackets.

And then you have to italicize it because it's really a foreign word. This is kind of tedious. By the way, most scholars are sloppy here.

Dwight Whitney calls it... Most of them are slovenly. In my opinion, if you can't get a bibliography entry right, how can I trust your ideas about philosophy?

I was just going to ask. Should the parentheses themselves be italicized? I played with it.

I was going to demand italicizing the parentheses, but it doesn't look so good. It looks better if you don't italicize it. I'm just still like that.

I was going to make it a big rule to italicize it, and then I realized it wasn't as attractive to me. Making a book attractive is important. It should look attractive, and it should be consistent.

Do the same thing every time. In my opinion, this looks better to me. This looks better to me.

I think it looks better, too. Especially on square brackets. Same with [?].

Now there's one problem with Sanskrit. Who can tell me? No, we separate them.

Like up there. It's not diacritic.

[Student]
It's pronunciation. It's going to be one of those letters, but that's neither.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's option E, capital S. Get your cursor in the right place first. Wipe out the S-H.

Okay. By the way, your font has to be ABC Extended [?]. It won't work.

[Student]
Take out the S-H.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Option E, and then capital S. There you go. You've got to learn those.

Option X puts a dot under it. Option E puts a slash over it. Option N puts a tilde over it.

Option A makes it a long vowel. It's supposed to be more pages. Yeah, and you should have had A or B on the folio.

It's B, actually. Isn't it more than one folio? Doesn't it start at page 10 and go to page 15?

How do I know the page? Listen, okay? If you want to know where it starts, I don't trust anybody.

I don't look. This is the way I am.

[Student]
I'm sorry. It's 470 pages.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This is how I check the pages. I just look for it. And I look for it near Bökedu, in the language of Tibet.

Every single title of the 5,000 titles in the Kangyur and Tengyur says Bökedu. Search for it within about three lines. I believe there's multiple copies of the Le Gyapa in the Kangyur.

So here we go. Uh oh. Let's take out the Gyapa.

Let's take out the Pa. Yeah, so they named it the Le Gyapa. They didn't name it Le Gyapa.

But only one hit. Now, there's one B, okay? Then you hit function right arrow.

To go to the end of the file. And you just look at the page number. Here it is, 470.

So one B to 478. No, you don't multiply. You just say one B to 478.

And that's what I do. I don't trust it. I don't trust anybody.

The Tohoku people were very, very careful. But I still want to look at it myself. I just feel like the buck stops here.

If it's been done by Geshe Michael Roach or by the Sedona translation team, you can trust it. We looked, we checked.

[Student]
So you're using a small A there, but you use a large A here?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh right, that's correct. It's more attractive in a bibliography. Can I show you how I should write it?

Oh, you want me to get on it? And it's not a waste of time to talk about this. A lot of my time is spent fixing these things.

If you can get that down, for your whole life you'll be doing good work. And it's cool. There's an easier way to do diacritics.

If you just take the letter, if you have it on international, and hold it down. All the Chinese people know this. Hold it down and it'll show you all the possibilities for diacritics.

Yeah, and just put a hyphen. Don't put two. Yeah, and notice there's a space after the FF period.

Yeah, that's correct.

[Student]
So the FF goes before a range, but after a total page length.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
If it's more than one page long.

[Student]
Yeah, we've got an issue here. It is in two volumes. So do you want him to say both volumes in two parts and give both of the volumes?

And the other problem is we don't actually know at the moment if this is 339A or 339B. And 339 without an A or a B in our database is Karma Vibhanga.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, you mean this number? This is what he was working from.

[Student]
But if you go to that ACIP number, you hit the Karma Vibhanga and not this.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's unfortunate. No, it's because we mistyped it.

[Student]
339A is correct. But if you do it without the A, you get Karma Vibhanga. But if you hit A or B, you get Karma Vibhanga.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
See, me and Jigme, we are forced to follow the Tohoku and they made some mistakes. So it was our fault.

[Student]
So just take whatever is there. I'm sorry.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We did hit a problem with this text. They miss. Very rare.

They're mostly very careful. This is around 1930s in Japan. Yeah, something like that.

I remember. We worked on it. So maybe you do have to save Part 1.

Whatever me and Jigme put at the bottom, you probably have to put it. Because there was some kind of problem with it.

[Student]
So if he's going to say Part 1 in English, should he say Bampo Dangpo?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, then you have to say Bampo Dangpo. Now I remember. We artificially put the name Bampo on it.

In the Tohoku, Le Gyapa is 340. There's two Le Gyapas. They didn't get the first half of it.

But still it shouldn't be. Look at 339A. There is no 339A.

Trust me. They didn't split it right. So we're just trying to help people.

Just follow this. What is it? It's still down.

[Student]
By itself.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's 341 in the Tohoku. Spread it out. We'll work on it.

Here we go.

[Student]
Let's keep going. I don't want to use your time.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's an exception where there was a mistake. And the BC should be? Part 341.

[Student]
It's only a couple of numbers that we're off on.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Make a note and tell Jimmy. Let's go. We don't want to use your time.

Then he says, okay, I agree. It does fit my definition. You can't agree because it doesn't fit your definition.

Because it's not fresh. Because it's been a hundred eons. Here we go.

So Jimmy, you make a note and we'll just go look at it. But I remember we were fixing something. Well, this is terrible.

I mean, this is hard. This might be the solution. Did somebody else have this problem?

Oh, Connie. Connie O'Brien had this problem. She was struggling with a statement in the Abhidharma that the last three of the ten bad deeds is not karma, but it's a path of karma.

And this may be the answer. I mean, this is one of the two [?] I can think of. If something is an impure state of mind, which is taken in by the second link, which is subsumed or involved with the second link, okay, if something is an impure state of mind which is involved with the second link, then it is the second link.

So can you think of an exception? Is there something which is a state of mind and it's involved with the second link, but it cannot be the second link? Something impure, you mean?

Yeah, an impure state of mind which is involved with the second link, but which is not the second link.

[Student]
Involved with the second link. I mean, the first link's involved, and so is the third.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You could say that. Simultaneously? Okay.

[Student]
What do you mean the same time?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's going on at the same time as the second link. It's going on at the same time as the second link. Right, and this is the first thing that comes to mind.

Just to play devil's advocate in a general way. Well, let's go see his counterexample, and you will immediately guess. Okay, good.

I believe the gyu-gyu here is opposed to dü-tu. Dü-tu ki kunlong and gyu-gyu ki kunlong. Oh, it's the motivation at the beginning or the motivation at the end?

The motivation that you have before you start an action, and the motivation you have as you sustain an action. So, first you get angry, and then you say something. That's called gyu-gyu ki kunlong.

Causal motivation. And then if all day you keep yelling at your wife, I know it never happened, if you keep being angry all day, that's called sustained motivation. It keeps going on during the action.

It's not before the action. So, that's an Abhidharma thing. So, you notice how many things are coming up from the Abhidharma.

It's old, it's cranky, there's bad parts of it, but there's huge amount of information that's taken from the Abhidharma. So, for you to be a Mahayana teacher for the rest of your life, to have the Abhidharma there as the core, it's very cool. Because it's where everything comes from.

Gyu-gyu ki kunlong [?]. So, let's consider the causal motivation. Are you telling me it's the second link?

Why? Because it's involved with the second link. The consciousness that you have going on during that second link.

General awareness. Your general awareness while you're doing the second link. Is it second link?

And here's the punchline, OK? You'll all say, oh, [?], if you say it is the second link, semjung yinpar tal. Are you telling me it's a mental function?

Yeah. No, it's tsowa and khor. Main mind and semjung.

Chitta and chaita. Mental functions, but the general awareness is going on up above. It's called the king and his circle.

And then there's semjung, all these, OK? Karma has to be... Karma is, yeah, a semjung.

Yeah, because it's... Because it's not main mind. It's chetana.

It's sempa. It's the movement of the mind. It's not your general awareness, OK?

Chetana. Yeah, if general awareness was karma, then buddhas have dirty karma, you know? It's a certain kind of movement of the mind.

The general awareness that you have is not karma. It's the thought. It's the decision, OK?

Like that. Movement of the mind. Sempa is a mental function.

Main mind is never karma. Cannot be karma. That may be an answer to Connie's question.

OK? Oh, I agree it's a mental function. Semjung.

Then go. Yeah. You can't say duh.

It's main mind. It's consciousness. It's awareness, OK?

It's not a particular movement of the mind, OK? So not all mental things involved with the second link are the second link. OK.

OK? Only the movement of the mind is the second link. Which is the karma.

Yeah. OK? Got it?

These are beautiful. I mean, you can learn a lot. All right?

OK. All right. OK.

OK. Yeah. This yo is high tone.

Yo. Yo. With the yo.

Hey, yo, man. This one's hard, and it requires a background in the Abhidharma. OK?

You have to know Abhidharma to get this one. So I put the Abhidharma in here for you. We'll get there.

So we're starting with the yo. with our karma, which is miyowa, must be experience. Nice.

And he tends to learn things. I don't know what it is. I think at night, he memorizes them.

What's miyowa? That's when I divert. Yeah, cannot divert.

Cannot become a [?], when it's supposed to be a dog. OK, yo, it's going to go. What's the famous Tantric word that has miyowa?

[Student]
Myo-ne. Gumpo. Myo-ne.

Gumpo. Gumpo.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Akshobhya, one of the five Buddha families, is called miyowa. Oh, miyowa. Akshobhya means never moving, solid, solid Buddha.

Is his name not mikyöpa in Tibetan? Or is it both? Mikyöpa?

Yeah, mikyöpa, miyowa. It could be.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
OK. Same word, miyowa.

[Student]
You're right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's actually mikyöpa. Anyway, same thing. All right, [?], can you hear miyowa?

Now, Drebuche is one of the form realm levels, resulting form realm. There's four causal form realms. So when we say causal form realm, we mean meditations which are going to throw you into the form realm.

But when they finish throwing you, there's 17 choices where you're going to go. They relate to the fourth causal. So 3, 3, 3, and 8.

So the fourth one has 8, as I remember. There's 8 that relate to the fourth. Which is in our [?].

Where's [?]?

[Student]
He's sick. He's got conjunctivitis.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh my God. We don't want that. Flu is better.

What was the question? What's the fourth form realm meditation? Oh, the sugar crystal.

Yeah, the sugar. When you put your mind in the sugar crystal. If you meditate on that a lot in this lifetime, you can be thrown into 9 different realms.

There's 9 levels possible. Sorry, 8. 8, sorry.

And then each of these has 3. So the [?] has 3. [?] has 3.

[?] has 3. That's 9. You can go 3, 3, 3.

And this one has 8. So a total of 17. Now, in the Abhidharma, the top 5 of those 8 are called the Neytsangma.

Which means the... What's tsangma? Tsangma?

No, that's tsangma. Tsangma means clean.

[Student]
Oh, that's right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tsangma is one of the misperceptions. You see dirty things as clean. Tsangma means ritual purity in tantra.

You have to wear a mask. So Neytsangma means the clean levels. Is it from a [?]?

No, not related. It just means [?] considered. The Arya levels.

In the Abhidharma. So those... The top 5 of the last 8, part of the 4th concentration level, this can go to 8 places after you're reborn.

The top 5 of them are Arya levels. And they're called the clean levels. And then the lower 3 are not.

So really unclean levels. There's 3, 3, 3, and 3. And then if you're an Arya, you get to go to 5.

Top 5. I had to look it up because I couldn't remember all this stuff. Meaning that Aryans won't necessarily be born as humans.

They can be reborn in the form of...

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, but they would try to avoid it actually. But that's another... This is Abhidharma.

That's very common in the monastery. This is Abhidharma. Now, the 3rd of the dirty ones here.

So there's 3 dirty and then 5 good ones. Clean ones. The 3rd of the dirty ones is called Big Result.

The name of the level is Big Result. Drebuche. Great Result.

Because short of being Arya, that's the best you can do in the 4th level. You're in the 4th. You did the sugar crystal.

And you weren't an Arya. So the highest you could go would be the 3rd. Of these 3 and then 5, right?

So these are all sosokye. Sosokye. Yeah.

These are all non-Aryas. So the 4th concentration level has 8. It can throw you into 8 divisions of rebirth.

2 minutes, Geshe La. And each of the other has 3. Okay.

So Samten is... What does it mean? Samten means concentration.

For example, it's the word for the 5th perfection. But, but, but, in the study of Abhidharma, it refers to the 4 concentration levels in the [?] that can throw you to a form realm rebirth. So unfortunately, they didn't give them different names.

They just called them concentration number 1, concentration number 2, concentration number 3, concentration number 4. And of course, the 4 formless realm meditations are also concentration. And of course, you can be in the desire realm and almost have concentration on the air conditioner.

So unfortunately, the name for the form realm meditations is concentration. But they give a number to them. Concentration 1, concentration 2.

So if you see a number after Samten, you know it's talking about the form realm causal meditations that will throw you into the form realm. We call them form realm meditations. They're not really.

They throw you into the form realm. Okay? So he has chosen a karma, okay, karma, which will throw a person into a body and mind which ripens into great result.

Okay? The third of the fourth.

[Student]
Third level of the fourth realm.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Third level of the fourth resulting realm. Okay? So now, to make things worse, it's a shitun.

It's one karma, which is a combination of two different things. One karma, which is a combination of two different things. What's the two things?

Number one, it's an unshifting karma. Which is okay because mostly unshifting karmas are ones that throw you into the form or formless realm. That's mainly what unshifting means.

Remember? Sönam, Sönam mayinpa, and Miyowa. We just did it, right?

So, it's comfortable, you know? If it's an unshifting karma, it's probably going to the form or formless realm anyway. And this one happens to be going to the third level of the fourth realm.

Okay? He's taking the highest non-arya one he can take. So, it's going to throw you into that realm, that level.

Okay? Now, if something is both those together, if one thing is both those together, shitun, okay? Then, rang nyi ki, then it must be pakpay nammin gyi pungpo.

The ripening, the body and mind that ripens for an arya. It must be the case that it cannot divert. It must be the case that it cannot divert to any place other than the...

Great result. Great result. Okay, so listen.

It's a karma. It has two qualities. One, it's unshifting.

Secondly, it's going to throw you to the highest non-arya body and mind. Now, we say, therefore, rang nyi ki pungpo, if a... suddenly if a person achieves arya, they will still have to go to the third one.

They will still have to go to a not clean level. Okay? Got it?

[Student]
It's a karma.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's unshifting. It's meant to go to the highest non-arya level, but suddenly this guy becomes an arya. So, what's going to happen to this karma?

It's miyowa. It's unshifting. Is he going to get stuck in a non-arya level body and mind, but he's already an arya?

He just changed to arya, but he already had this karma to throw a body into a non-arya place. So, which takes... which is going to win?

Fat guy, skinny guy... Yeah, he says, he says, because the karma is miyowa, this arya's got to go to an unclean place because that karma was already collected and it's throwing an unclean place. Got it?

So, who's going to win?

[Student]
Generally, I'd bet on [?].

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I'll say it one more time. I'll say it backwards. It cannot divert to a level other than big result.

It cannot divert. You called it undiverted, right? But suddenly the guy became an arya, right?

So, he's going to end up in a non-arya body and mind. You said non-divert. You said it can't shift.

Okay, Miyo. Hey, yo. Next time, we'll have some fun, if you want.

You know, these are all quotations about the 17 levels. I don't think we should go through the whole thing. I'll just give them to you quickly.

That's for your footnote. Just so you can say, you can explain. You can say, go look there and you don't have to translate the whole thing.

Thank you.