Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 42

[Student]
So, in this lecture, I'm going to talk about how to get rid of the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy, the negative energy. and a wonderful writer, very clear. And his book is about the most important topic in Buddhism, the very most important.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Much more important than the other books here.

[Student]
Much more important than the other books. Once you understand the topic of this text, you can reach freedom. It's called Light on the Path to Freedom, his text.

And that is about what does selflessness mean. And he goes through all the different Buddhist philosophical schools, and their position on what emptiness is related to things and people. And we have gone through all the lower schools.

And we have just started the fourth year, the Consequence group of the Middle Way school, the last time we met. We finished up the Independent group, and we went on to the Consequence group. And we're not even halfway through the text, so that means most of this text is about the Consequence group and how it refines the understanding of the lower ways and positions.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What's the genre called of yours?

[Student]
The genre is meditation.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We call it Tawa. Tawa. OK?

So if you say, I'm doing Vinaya, or I'm doing Dukta, or I'm doing mind only. If somebody asks you, what category are you in, you're representing Tatti, which is emptiness meditation. And it's a whole subject, like mind only, Middle Way, Abhidharma.

Yeah, we're treating it as a separate subject. No.

[Student]
Not much.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sometimes, yeah. But I consider it to be, I think in our group, it should be treated as a separate subject. It should have the weight of Abhidharma, or mind only, or Dukta.

OK. Are there many texts? There's a decent number, but not like mind only.

Well, mind only also has a deficiency of texts. But, I don't know. Thankfully, we've got Tongten.

Tongten, yeah. Tongten is also a genre. There's a lot of Tongtens.

And Kedrup Je's is the Tongten Chenmo, the big one. He modestly named it. I don't mean, yeah, he did.

Mainly other people call it Tongten Chenmo. OK, go ahead.

[Student]
Sorry. OK, so we've wrapped up the independent group. So what, Choney Lama gave us the classical example of the way to figure out what it means to say that things are not real.

Like in the mirror? Yes. Great.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, reflection in the mirror.

[Student]
More specifically, the reflection of the object reflected appears to be the thing in the mirror, but it's not the way it appears. Right. A little, a little script, let's see.

In closing his discussion of the independent group, what two things does Choney Lama say?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Take a day off.

[Student]
Yeah, right, yeah, uh-huh. If you came to some certainty about just the lack of a self-nature that things is held by the independent group, it would be an amazing thing.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah.

[Student]
If you say you understand the point of view, you'd better understand the meaning of it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Whoa. Yeah, if you just got their idea of emptiness straight, you would be a genius. But if you think you understand it, you're not a genius.

[Student]
Time to wake up.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Time to wake up.

[Student]
Because here's the hard question.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ooh, I like this question.

[Student]
And just to preface, this is English, and then the bonus question is Tibetan.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So don't tell the Tibetan yet.

[Student]
I'm not doing the Tibetan yet. What are the five synonyms for Gakja in the Consequence group?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Gakja, which is the self-existent.

[Student]
Five synonyms for self-existent. In Allison's text, here it means the thing that we deny.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Exists by definition.

[Student]
Let's do it in. Oh, by definition. If you remember the definition.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's asking too much.

[Student]
I covered that in Tibetan. Well, yeah, existing by definition.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's on one side, by definition. It has its own self-nature. Its own self-nature.

Yeah. Yeah, on the side of the moon.

[Student]
Can I get Tsenyiki to do that?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
On the outside of the page, right?

[Student]
Yeah. We're not allowed to answer that. We gave that one, Gakja.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, sorry. By definition. We already had that.

Intruder.

[Student]
Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's five.

[Student]
Wait a minute.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
She's like, come on. Truly existing, exists by definition. Exists from its own side.

There might be a live tool in there somewhere. I don't know.

[Student]
Exists by definition from its own side.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Because sometimes you understand one, but you don't understand the other. You see what I mean? It's the same thing.

[Student]
But to say it's from its own side appeals to some people.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And then exists real appeals to other people.

[Student]
Yes. Hold on. What?

Process, which is to include a dependent. Right, labeling.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah.

[Student]
Oh, dependent. So it's OK if not somebody in. Well, we get to include.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So it's just in a way being that it's not simply a label.

[Student]
OK, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to someone to its own from its own side. By definition.

And it's true. OK, now that's an increase. Just say it anyway.

If anyone wants to.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
From its own side.

[Student]
So my inbox or something?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, something wrong. Oh, my input is not bad. Wrong input.

[Student]
In my input.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
These are synonyms for the Gakja, so don't make them negative. Thank you for not writing grub. That's very unusual.

No, you did a good job. Oh, I'm sorry. It should have been G-R-U-B.

But I'm just saying most people put G-R-U-B and it drives me crazy. I was looking at the U-P.

[Student]
What did you say this was?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Rang-ne-ju-pa?

[Student]
Rang-ne-ju-pa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nice.

[Student]
Who said that? Now, by definition, this should roll off everyone's mind.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Rang-ne-ju-pa.

[Student]
Rang-ne-ju-pa. Very nice. Now, if you have...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
How many total words are there, did we say, for self-existent?

[Student]
Well, we gave five synonyms.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
There's about 20. 20 or 25. I did it one day at an ACI program just for fun.

[Student]
Really?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I think it was at Chinatown. Anyway. Did we touch on that in the text text?

No, no, no, it's not yet.

[Student]
Somebody did.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It was in one of your text texts. Oh, I don't remember. It was a diamond cutter or something.

Yeah, it could have been, yeah. This is a very hard word.

[Student]
This is a very hard word.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, and countless people will correct it to B-Y-E-D, and that's an incorrect correction. Yeah, yeah, the face in front of the mirror. The one you're shaving.

Oh. What kind of views does it look? By the way, normally it doesn't have an R, okay?

Normally. You'll see it more often without the R.

[Student]
Needless to say.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it means needless to say. Needless to say.

[Student]
Whoa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Whoa. Se-tar. Se-tar.

The ultimate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's awful quiet.

[Student]
It's the ultimate measure of the Gakja.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, nice.

[Student]
The measure of the ultimate Gakja.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah. What does it take to be the Gakja? Oh, where's the Titian?

I don't know. The one with the hair back. And that's the Sukhnyan.

Sukhnyan and Titian.

[Student]
Sukhnyan. Okay. Okay, here we go.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'll take the plane. Nice homework.

[Student]
Yeah. Okay, here we go. What's happening?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'm going to split this to make it easier, okay? I'll probably unsplit it later. Go ahead.

Kramer has the plane.

[Student]
Shi-gya-way, nyu-drel-wa-lay, drop-pa-lay, drop-pa-lay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Uh, what does that much mean? The way to... Four hundred explanations.

Oh, the four hundred verses by Aryadeva? So your Gaccha [?], but it says that way. Yeah, it is the four hundred verses of Aryadeva, which is the main student of Nagarjuna.

But, there's a commentary by Dawa-droppa. So Chandrakirti wrote a commentary. These are four hundred verses by a student of Nagarjuna.

Very famous. Okay. But what's the tokpa-jok-so?

That's a... I'm more interested in the...

[Student]
The way that things are established through conception.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Yeah, nice. How do you establish things through conception, you can say.

But, downstairs we learned it means through the picture coming out of the seed. So tokpa means that process, you know. How is it that we create objects, through seeds coming out of our mind and unifying the object, okay?

That's called tokpa. We call it conception just for...

[Student]
Right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Thinking, it's a verb, right? How do you...

How is it that the mind creates things, okay? And, and he's going to go into it. What school are we in?

Yeah, we reached higher school. So this is going to be actually correct. Sometimes, up to now it wasn't always correct.

Okay. Yeah, I'm going to ask you to stop there, okay? Just as a piece.

I'll give you a clue. No, I won't give you a clue, and I'll offer $100. Okay, $100, who can figure this one out?

Up to Dung, okay? It's short.

[Student]
Where is it? Things exist just through the existence of the idea.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No.

[Student]
Only the idea...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Only established by... Established by conception? Well, you're...

Give me a little more, and I'll say... I'll call it even. Give me the nyi.

[Student]
The idea itself that...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'll give you another clue for free. Read nyi as kona. Established by conception, and only by...

Existence itself. Yeah. Just an idea.

Yeah. The only way you can say something exists, is if you have conceived it.

[Student]
If you've created.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's the only way a thing can exist. Okay? It's very beautiful.

Only through the process of seeds opening up, can you say a thing exists. If there were not a process of the seeds opening up, you could not say it existed. Okay?

Got it? Now he's going to do the opposite.

[Student]
Nothing exists if you don't conceive it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, now he should have said, meypa nyi, but he got cute, and he said, gyupa nyi meypa, which is essentially the same thing, okay? And if there's... And if there is no process of seeds opening, then you can't have any gyupa.

So here the nyi is negative, okay? The only way you can have anything existing, is if the mind creates it with these seed pictures. And if there is no seed picture, you cannot have any existence.

Okay? So he... The wording is difficult.

He didn't say meypa nyi. He should have... To be parallel, he should have said meypa nyi, but he said, gyupa nyi meypa.

Okay? There cannot be anything. That's all.

He's just saying it that way.

[Student]
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Here it is, process. The process creates the existence. And here it's in the absence of.

And you could discuss why he did that, if it's not a typo. Om mani padme hum. Om mani padme hum means, I hope so.

Okay. I want to draw your attention to it. Somebody should give this idiom to Adam.

Say korma chapa. It's a scriptural idiom. And here's the definition down here.

Tetsam meypa. Yeah, beyond the shadow of a doubt. That's how you say it in Tibetan, korma chapa.

It means like, the circle is not broken or something. Okay. But it means beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Okay. We've probably had it. We've had everything before, but...

Okay. So, this is true. Without a process of pictures, coming from karmic seeds, there can be no existence.

And in the absence of a karmic seed picture, existence is unheard of. And this process is indisputable. How's indisputable?

Okay. You cannot argue with it. Korma chapa.

And then he goes on to an example. Who's talking?

[Student]
Chandrakirti.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, Chandrakirti. Okay, Chandrakirti. Some pretty good source.

The bed. Okay. Except for Nagarjuna, maybe.

Okay. Keep going. Takpa...

[Student]
Takpa tokpa la takpe.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This was an interesting mistake. And they repeated it over, and over, and over. Okay.

What's tul? Snake. No, tul.

[Student]
False.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tulku. Tulku. Emanation body.

Like a high lama, tulku. And tul means...

[Student]
Snake.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
A snake. And they, over and over, they typed the wrong thing. Okay, they carved the wrong thing.

[Student]
They're doing the rope snake thing.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, they are. Takpa...

[Student]
Takpa tokpa la. Ah...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Can somebody look up bastoks for me? I just realized I don't know this one.

[Student]
Bastoks.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It might mean... It might mean coiled, what is it?

[Student]
Composed. It says rolled up.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's rolled up, okay.

[Student]
It's rolled up.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I've got to make a note for myself because I've never seen this word.

[Student]
Could you make your cursor a little bigger too when you go change it?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Student]
Sorry, I'm just trying to find it. By the way, Adam says he can do today.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's up to you, you're the boss. I can do anything.

[Student]
As long as you can do anything, that's fine. You're off the hook, Seiji.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh dang, I just prepared Seiji's text, okay. Okay, so I saved some time. I can sleep this, I mean I can work on Scott's text.

Okay, rolled up rope, la, tak. Labeled. Yeah, labeled, which is actually correct and Chandrakirti has Britax, which could be correct, I mean imagine that it's a snake, okay.

But it's probably meant to be labeled, okay. So, du, tar, you label a coiled rope, a snake, okay.

[Student]
But that essence, it doesn't have that essence, it's not pure essence. It's not established that way.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, no, no. You owe me like a hundred dollars for this correction. Okay, I mean you should kiss my feet.

Or give me a burger. No, no, no. No, no, no money, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, really, I'm just kidding.

The burger, give me a burger today. I'll take it. This correction cost me.

This correction cost me. Somebody tell me, somebody tell me why I was so like ready to shoot myself. It doesn't necessarily exist.

Here it says, when you call a rope a snake, it exists by definition. And, somebody left out the not. And I was going to throw something at somebody, but there wasn't anybody there.

They left out the not, okay. So, when you see a coiled rope, and you call it a snake, it exists by itself. And I'm sitting there tearing out the last part of my hair.

And then I checked Chandrakirti, and he said, ma. It's not. It doesn't exist by itself, okay.

Unbelievable. Who could do that? His text is so difficult, that I want to put the ma in.

But Gyaltsab Je is like, no, I didn't make a mistake, you figure it out. He wants to change his carving, but he's like, no, no, the carving is okay, it's you. Okay, anyway, here it is, Madhubo, okay.

I was a little excited, you can see, and I found it. Madhubo means Shesumbatar. And as he said, who said?

Chandrakirti. Yeah, as Chandrakirti noted, Chetamjeya, are just Togpetaksam. Yeah, and never forget that label means a picture coming out of a karmic seed, okay.

It doesn't mean anything else. It's not a sound, okay. It's not a sound.

That's not the process, it's more deep than that. The thing is, the unifying picture is coming out of a seed in your mind. Tied to karma, always, always, always, you know.

And who planted the seed? You did, when you did the same thing that this person did to you today. You probably left out of the karmic.

You were in a hurry, and you typed it wrong. Okay, so always tie it to dependent origination, right, which is the seed. Okay, okay, here, okay.

So there's the original quotation, okay. And when you pull it out, you always... You always try to capture the page number, so that when the footnote is made...

So you might go add a lot of lines there that are not really necessary, but you want to catch the page number, okay. And we footnote everything. Every single quotation, we go find it.

And we read it, and we study it, and we make sure it's the same. And that takes a...that's why we're a little slow. Okay, okay, here we go.

There's kadok without the M, okay.

[Student]
Kadok, tang, yip.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, nice, very nice, yip.

[Student]
Yip, yip. Dru, tang, dra, shing, yu, mi. Se, wang, na, ne, pe.

Se, tak, pa, la, din, di. Dru, dru, dru, sounds the same, right? Or is it dru?

Dru, dru.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Look, one, two, three, four, five. They mistake the snakes five times in three sentences. Is there a difference in pronunciation?

Oh, sorry? Absolutely, yeah. Dru, dru, and dru.

This is a D, that's an unaspirated T.

[Student]
Dru, dru, wang, niang, pe, tak, pa, yin, jung, wong.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'll tell you an interesting thing about English. TR? Yeah, TR is a CH in English, truck.

It's not truck. Yeah, you know, that's why Indians don't sound right to an American, because they're saying truck. They're actually correct.

[Student]
It's TR.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But American English says cha, truck. It doesn't make any sense. Okay, if you think about it.

Yeah, Russian will say trop, yeah. And everybody say, you don't, you don't speak English well. You say, but it's just trop.

No, it's truck, truck. And no American is aware they're saying cha, you know. And then try to get a German to distinguish between cheap and jeep.

Okay, that's another story.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Dayang, what's trao mean? You've, you, by the way, you had it in, where did you have it before?

[Student]
I had it in my book about proving omniscience, because you can see the many colors and forms.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. So it means a checkered pattern, like, like, a little bit like Tim's socks usually. Show your socks.

[Student]
Yeah, okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'm just jealous. All right, so trao means speckled or something like that. Meaning the rope, right?

Color, colored speckles. And so the color is, is speckled. And the yip is kilwa.

Yeah, and kinkor, kinkor mandala comes from that. Because it was originally a disc. Okay, the world was a disc.

Yeah, so kin, no, but no aspiration, kinkor. And an illegal prenasal, kinkor. Okay.

So anyway, and by the way, this, as we said downstairs, about the pot on the stove, he's naming the two things that the eye power can sense, which is only color and shape. See, he's mentioned the words here, kadok and yip. So based on just color and shape, and the way it's, the way it's coiled, kiluk, and because it looks like a snake, you'll, because the color and shape are like a snake, and you'll be so, this is an old, what do they call it?

[Student]
Photographical.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's always dusk. They always say at dusk. So it means the object just isn't very clear, because it's dusk outside.

The lighting has to be bad. Traditionally, the lighting's bad. Okay?

Na nepa, okay? It's...at that time, you can get, jung, the topa, the idea, and there's topa used as an idea, that quote, personal quotation, nyam. Oh look, it's a snake.

Rulo. Rulo. Okay, these guys have to go.

We'll miss you. Come back soon.

[Student]
Come back soon.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You get more credit if you make the life tool from her text than from her text. Because it's difficult from her text. No, I'm just kidding, just kidding.

Maybe mix it together, you know, like, if you fail to wear your cloth, water cover. Oh, if you fail to wear your water cover when you're around snakes.

[Student]
Right. Geshe La, did you say the nyam thought?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it means think to yourself. It always means think to yourself. And this lo makes it a quotation mark.

Oh look, a snake. Okay, you say in your own mind, you get the idea, and you say to yourself, oh look, a snake. Okay?

[Student]
And it's also at a distance, right? Takpa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, tak means rope. Okay, but nye tak does mean close by. But this takpa means rope, yeah.

Which is why it's so frustrating when Nick, or somebody would say takpa for takpa. But I'm sure he's not going to do it anymore. It's hard for an American to not aspirate a tea.

Takpa. Takpa. It's hard for a Chinese to not aspirate a pee.

Pee wang. Pee wang. Not pee wang.

You see what I mean? Yeah, no, it's different cultures have different problems. Russians are perfect.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But we knew that.

[Student]
Oh, sorry.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, you're right, you're right. Okay, we're okay?

[Student]
I'm wrong.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
By the way, your yip was excellent, so just show off when you hit there.

[Student]
They say takpa de khabat dang yip.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yip.

[Student]
Yip. So yin kang yang dru gi sen shir. Sun gyum me kyang.

Tok pe dru du dru. Takpa zang shik ni yu du.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. They say the takpa, the rope, the rope, okay, it's color and it's shape. And it's parts.

And now he says soaking for the first time, and he's going to repeat it a few times. And it means, it's Shantideva's thing about armies and forests and... forests and malas.

Shantideva's thing about forests and malas. Yeah, forests are collections, are wholes of parts statically. And malas are an example of overtime.

The pieces of the mind overtime. Okay, so you can either have parts of a cup here in this moment, or you can have the parts of you during the last three classes or the last two classes are flowing, in a flow. So he's very cool.

He says collections of parts and flows of parts. So you got to split these two words apart. And they both have chashi.

They both have components, okay. Whether you're talking about the person overtime, since this morning, since you got up, each different moment, which is a collection of parts, or you're talking about Stanley right now, his arms, his legs, his... Okay, okay.

I like to call it static parts and stream overtime. Do you like to say whatever? I like to call it...

I mean, for me, it's easier to remember if I say static parts and stream overtime. Thanks. It's just something I do for myself.

Kanyang. Now, senshi you guys know.

[Student]
Classical example.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the classical example, like, what's the senshi of a... of a laptop is this MacBook. You see what I mean?

You see what I mean? Yeah, here it's a different meaning, okay? Sung gyu means...

This gyu means reason to hold it. Okay? And there's nothing about the rope, which is a snake.

There's not one percent. It means there's not one percent of the rope in the rope, which is snake.

[Student]
So, senshi here is more like a reasonable basis?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Well, it means that... the real thing. Here it means the real thing.

There's nothing snakey about the rope at all. That's senshi misungwa, you see? Sung gyu me.

There ain't... There ain't one thousandth percent snake-ness about the rope. So, senshi kind of means snake-ness.

[Student]
Snake-ness.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Now, you know how you translate it, good luck. But what it's saying is, there ain't the slightest atom of snake-ness about this rope.

Okay? Okay. But, we still...

Our ideas, or our mind, in a negative way, right? Just labels it. Okay?

Just labels it as a snake. That's kind of... Now, that's a...

There's a difficult point here. What happens when you really look at a snake? Yeah, the same thing.

So, you know... You know, then it's not senshi sung gyu me. Then they can't say there's nothing snakey about it.

I mean, this is a little bit... He's in dangerous territory. Maybe he's in a labyrinth.

He's in dangerous territory. I mean, with a thing that's not a snake, okay, but... What about the parts of a snake?

Those are pretty snakey.

[Student]
Yeah, hopefully he's going to distinguish that.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and then find some smoother way to say it. But it does mean that. Nothing more than a production of your mind, is what it means, okay?

The sam means nothing more than that, okay? Sometimes sam can mean nothing more than, okay? Now he's going to apply it to Michael.

Okay, here we go. Please read... You got the plin?

Okay. Shin. Nice, yip.

Sounded like a great thing.

[Student]
Ni. Nice.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
De shindu. Now he says, in the same way with us, with Michael, or... Sylvia, or Raul, okay?

Rangipumbo. You know, sometimes... I don't know if we want to go that far, but...

you might say, your body and mind. Okay, just consider it sometimes. It makes the sentence a lot easier for a foreigner, instead of saying, on top of your five parts, on top of your five heaps.

Because it means, what a Tibetan thinks of when they say, on top of your five heaps, they think, your body and mind. Which is much more common in English, okay?

[Student]
Oh yeah, you put ngal.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So... Yeah, on... You take your body and mind, and then a state of mind comes, that thinks, that's me.

Ngal. That's me. Okay?

And... Now, listen. Listen to this sentence.

But there ain't the slightest thing about the collection of parts there, or the flow over time, or the parts by themselves, or the shape, or anything else, which is you. So he's going radical on us.

[Student]
Yeah, wow.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. He's making a direct parallel. Yeah, he's making the parallel direct.

[Student]
I was pretty sure he wasn't afraid of your computer.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
There's nothing... Yeah, he wasn't... There's nothing Mikey about his skin, or his ear, okay?

He's more radical. He's saying, there ain't nothing Mikey about that. One more sentence.

[Student]
Okay?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's all just made up by your mental images. Okay, bye. I don't think there's any life to it.

[Student]
Huh? Sorry, no life to it. No life to it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Especially not... Give him five. ...underwear. Give him five. Okay. Thanks for coming.

[Student]
Come back next...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Come back next term. We like you.

[Student]
Take it. Thank you. See you guys later.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And we promise to improve your focus in your meditation by making noise up here.

[Student]
Just give us like 10, 15 minutes.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Wait here and get there.

[Student]
Be patient with us. It's like jogging with weights on your nose.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, like that. Because you get, not just the noise, but you're getting pissed off about the noise. And the pissed off person in meditation That's the best.

Okay, we had a... We had a logical presentation and now we're going for the... And by the way, I've gotten in the habit of doing verses like this.

I think it's pretty on the page. And it helps someone who's trying to follow the Tibetan to see where the verse is. So I've just suggested.

It's a suggestion. So we should put the Tibetan in. When you have a verse, you see, it's easy for the reader who's trying to learn Tibetan to see where is the verse.

I've just been doing it this way. This is the name of the book. This says, it says.

And here's the four lines of verse. If it's one line, I don't do it. Because that gets distracting.

That slows the reader down. But this helps the reader, I think. This is like the most quoted book I've ever read.

Yeah, we should probably do it sometime. But everybody does it. I like to find...

Even with rock'n'roll, I like songs that nobody found yet, that are better than the songs they found, you know.

[Student]
Yes, I... Yeah, it just exists...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
nominally. Meaning in pictures. It doesn't mean nominally, okay?

But it's a misleading term. Yeah, yeah, right. That, that me.

That me exists only nominally. Meaning in, in... as a product of pictures unifying parts.

Yeah, samsik, it's just a... It's just that I. Okay.

[Student]
Thank you. Gang, gang.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Gang means bladder. Gang means what?

[Student]
Gang.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. Ah, this point is also made, okay? Shekhyang ten.

This point is also made in the... string of precious jewels. Yeah, good, by the Arya, excellent.

Yeah, by the Arya, yeah. Capital A, okay? And everybody knows who we were talking about.

Okay. Ah... The person is not the earth element in them.

Now, he's just listing parts. You know, he could have said arms, legs, nose, tongue. But he's, he's...

You know, physical matter in Buddhism is composed of the elements. And, and sometimes there's four. Sometimes there's five.

Sometimes there's six. Sometimes there's seven. Sa chun ne lu.

Earth, water, fire, and wind. Sometimes they add consciousness.

[Student]
Sometimes they add... And sometimes they add wood.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
In the... In the calendar.

[Student]
But it's not all of them. It's not all of them. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Well, let's do it... First he lists the parts. You are not your earth element.

You're not your water element. You're not your fire element. You're not your wind element.

You're not your sky... space element. You're not your consciousness part.

And you ain't everything altogether. Now that's the tricky one. And you're not everything altogether either.

Until... Until karma seed opens and you put the picture on it. Is there not something other than the parts?

Yeah, what? You're gonna go look somewhere else other than the parts? Okay.

You're not your arms, you're not your legs, you're not your tongue. Oh, you must be the wall.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Go somewhere else. What? You're gonna go somewhere else?

I'm a book.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
How, how... Oh, de la shen pe kyu. Yeah, where are you gonna find a person who's not one of those, but he's not those either.

[Student]
De la shen, other than those.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Other than those parts.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Or whole. Okay? He had a long list of parts.

And then he said...

[Student]
I get the concept, I'm trying to get the Tibetan in the last phrase.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, this is a rhetorical question. Come. Where, where, where are you gonna find a person other than that?

What, what kind of person other than that?

[Student]
And what are you?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay.

[Student]
What kind of wise guy?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I gave you more lines, because he refers to them without telling us. Oh, okay. Okay?

Uh-oh. He, he quotes more of the context without announcing it. Okay?

So should we? Well, you'll see, it's coming. Yeah, you probably want to.

Uh...

[Student]
Make a more interesting footnote?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, so here's the...

[Student]
Prepare ourselves.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's interesting, it's not in the Madhyamaka section, it's in the epistles section, which is writings. Brahmavaram's [?] epistle? Uh, yeah, yeah.

Kyabpo... The long name is the String of Jewels, uh, Samkhye Shi... Spoken...

Uh, Stanley. Uh-huh. Here's Tam, okay?

Here's Tam used in a normal sentence, Tam, like basis of expression, right? But here it's, uh, you know, uh, words exchanged with the king. Uh, which is the subtitle of the String of Precious Jewels, Ratnamala.

Or Ratnavali, actually, Vali.

[Student]
They call it Vals, right?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Uh, the Tengyur calls it Ratnavali. Uh...

[Student]
Paduka Ratnamala.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, you're right. Anyway, Paduka... Uh, result of a discussion with the king.

So, so was the Suharlekha, right? Uh, letter to a friend, exactly. So these, these reflect the fact that in ancient times the kings would consult these monks for guidance on governing, how to shut down [?] the government and stuff.

I mean, nowadays it would be so nice to have, uh, some monks around to advise certain people. Okay. Dayang.

[Student]
Dayang. Dayang. Dayang.

Pal. Pal. Kamsa.

Kamsa. Kamsa. Njupa...

Ka...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ka... Yeah. Ka...

Okay, good. Uh, Chepa Bhongwasa Yuppa, right? The active form of a Gok, to, to, to deny, rather than stop.

Okay? Okay, on it, from its side, okay. So, the wording, okay, you know, and what that means, deyam, okay, and what that's about, is the wording from samin, here it is in the root text, from saying it's not your earth element, up to, where it's here, it's not your consciousness, shepay par means up to, and then it gives all that as an instrumental subject of the sentence.

Yeah, good, the lines are kaktay, here's the verb, okay, those lines are refusing, or denying, that these six parts of a person, right, kebu, kam, druk, the six elements here, or components of a person, okay, taken individually, please, okay, so-so ne, taken individually, one by one, the earth element is not them, individually, not as a group, okay, individually, they are not me, they cannot, they do not define you as a self, okay, they cannot be said to be a self. Then he gets to kunmin, which is up here, and he's talking about the collection of all the six together, okay, kam, druk, gi tsokpa, the collection of all them together, in static, right, he could have said gyun over time, okay, so you can't look at the parts, you can't look at the whole, and you can't look somewhere else, okay, ne, it's not gonna be over in the coffee shop, you know, check your arms and legs, check them all together, and then go look in the coffee shop, if you can't, don't find anton, there's no anton, okay, de le shen mi gyur bu kam, then the line which says, okay, the line which says, where are you gonna find a person other than those, indicates, that we are denying, that you could establish a person, who was essentially different from those six parts, and this expression came a lot in somebody's text, no, I mean this whole concept came, this last concept came a lot in somebody's text, sitting close to Utpala, yeah, this is the whole idea of a soul, you know, you see, that's the same wording in his text, over and over again, the Eternalist, saying there's a soul, that's not, it's you, it's the real you, but it's not your leg, it's not your arm, when you die, the soul floats away, you know, or there's a God watching over your parts, and so, that would also be lo ta de, some kind of separate entity that's not your part, okay, so, in his text it was literal, in this text it's less literal, it's more conceptual, neither could you have a person who was not related to these parts, okay, okay, essentially different, right?

You work with it, I think, get it clear in your mind first, I think essentially different's okay here, often times for lo ta de you have to say, not such that to be one is to be the other, but I think it's too much, it's overkill here, I think you would distract your reader, okay, it's up to you, I think essentially different is okay, then he quotes a line that he didn't quote, okay, look, this stops at kye bu kam, and he goes on with kye bu kam druk dupay chir, which happens to be the next verse, so I gave it to you, okay, so it happens to be the next verse, the first line of the next verse, and that's me, you want to read it?

[Student]
Yeah, can you do it?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, okay, yeah, here's the verse up here, the person is the collection, or the convening of those six elements, the person is those six elements come together, and then dakpa, and then luminous image ties it together, okay, okay, so, the line, that one line, he doesn't refer to the whole verse, he just says, and the next single line, which is half a line in the Sanskrit, by the way, it's usually double, right, Tibetan is double, and the English is usually double that, or I'd say average one and a half times, the Russian is going to be ten times, because each word is twenty-five syllables, ujjita nidze, that's the first word they gave me in Russian class, I'm like, huh?

Teacher, ujjita nidze. I'm like, this is going to be, I'm going to have a bad time. Okay, kam gyi tsok gyun, again split the two, what's that note mean?

[Student]
Oh, the whole and the... in time and...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, good, the static collection, tsok, and the flow over time, parts over time. The cup from this morning, and the cup now with the handle on the top, okay? Split the two, la ten ne tapa tsam, okay?

It's just parts, a collection of parts, with a label to unify them, okay? You got to remember that.

[Student]
That's hard, so is Nagarjuna just differentiating one of them as kun, and the other one as the...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, and often we say, dak chö, the... Yeah, meaning the collection of parts as receiving the label, then it's a different thing, okay?

Yeah. The collection of parts is not the same as the collection of parts that got the label.

[Student]
Right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Can you scroll back to the Nagarjuna for a split second? Oh, I want to understand that phrase. Oh, go ahead.

Oh yeah, so, he says, right after that, he says... Where were we? Yeah, I'll read the whole verse for you if you want, okay?

Because the person is the coming together, the convening of these six elements, okay? Therefore, it doesn't exist self-existently. Yangdak mayin means in and of itself.

This yangdak has nothing to do with pure. It just means in and of itself. Okay.

And then he says, neither do each of those elements exist in and of themselves, because they are also collections of parts.

[Student]
Right. So... Could you easily give reason addressing the preceding lines, it's not this, it's not this, it's not this, it's not this?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ah, no. It's a proof for the second line. We can't say it's pure because it is a collection.

You see? This verse begins with because. Oh, and because.

And because the person is a collection of these six, it's not something that could exist.

[Student]
But it is another fully a proof for the previous four lines.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ah, maybe, but that's not the point. Okay.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And the jitawa, by the way, means it's the same with the parts. They also have their parts. Ah, okay.

That's all. Yeah. In the same way, jitawa deshin is one word, jitawa deshin.

Yatha tatha. Yatha tatha.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We're over time.

[Student]
Oh, yeah. Can I just quickly ask for... Yeah, go ahead.

You said that there was a distinction between the collection of the parts receiving the label and the collection of the parts.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, because he... When he said kunmina, he already said it wasn't. And then, here he talked about the kamdugdupa.

The kami... You know, as a... receiving the label.

That's a common distinction. Dakshi, dokche, dakpechu. Learn it.

Okay? Dakshi, dokche, dakpechu. Dakshi, dokche.

Thing to receive the label, the label, and the produced, and the labeled thing which results. Okay? Dokche, that mind, the label.

Dakshi, dak... dok is... how it's spelled?

Aon da naru doga. Aon da naru doga. A partially D-O-G, che, B-Y-E-D, doker, then the labeler.

[Student]
Okay?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, andong. Then dakshi, I think it's G-D-A-G-S. Okay?

G-Z-H-I. The thing to receive the label. And when that process is finished, dakpechu, B-T-H-E-S.

The label... the result of the labeling. I like to translate it as the result of the labeling.

The result of the labeling process. Labeler, labelee, and the result of the labeling process. And my point was, just talking about kunmin, it isn't clearly the recipient of the label.

Yeah, I'm saying the do is more dakche. The thing to receive the label. That's all the point I'm making.

Yeah, cool. Taken out of context, the six together. Taken out of the context of a labeling procedure, process, it's just dak.

You know? Taken within the context of a labeling procedure, it is the thing which is going to receive the label, dakshi. Okay?

[Student]
But a do, ba, is like an assembled...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I'm saying... Yeah, it is past tense. Like do, che, came together, came together.

That's why I'm calling it dakshi.

[Student]
So, the distinction is whether or not we're talking about the labeling process?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Not just saying, in each case, the parts have come together. But where... Are they the target of the labeling?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we looking at them as the target of labeling yet? You know, just parts together in the same place is not yet dakshi.

Okay? Then the things build up and you start to... the label starts to come out.

You know?

[Student]
If that is you, then yanda mayin is not... it's not pure.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Which one? No, it doesn't mean pure.

[Student]
Yanda, it's not those... Yanda...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, yeah, it's not... It means self-existent.

[Student]
Oh, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And neither are the parts self-existent, because they also are collections.

[Student]
Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Each individually...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, each individual part is also a result of the collection of its parts. And therefore, neither is it yanda, meaning self-existent, pure.

[Student]
Hopefully, it also may be a clue from what we were trying to get from Svatantrika about the thing, is it parts and...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. He's talking about the raw data.

Neither is that really raw data. It has its own raw data, and it's endless. Yeah, yeah.

Because the lower middle way would say, at the level of the parts, those come from their own side.

[Student]
But also, he said that we would understand the lower middle way if we understood that a thing appears to be distinct from its parts, but it's not.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Now, that's your guy's problem. I'm not going there. You, you, you work with that.

[Student]
Yeah. I'm hoping that it helps you somehow.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the question is, is that, is that a wrong idea? What would the Prasangikas say? I, I don't know.

That's a whole, boy, that's a whole can of worms. I'm not going there in the last part of the class.

[Student]
Geshe La, we went through a few.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'm sorry?

[Student]
We actually went through the next two verses. But we can do them again.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, let's just, it's good to catch a little bit at the end of the last class, when you start a new class. Traditionally speaking. So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, Yay!