Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 13

[Geshe Michael Roach]
SANGYE SHINGDZO MIGDZE LUWAR GYI THOG KHUR NAMTHA SHING MA CHOD PA SHOK GIDAM GURU GANGNAM MANGDALA GANGNAYA PADAMI SANGYE CHOD DANG SOG GYI CHOG NAMTHA CHANG CHUG PA DU DANG NYID KYAM SU CHING DAG GIS CHEN YIN GYI PASEN NAM GYI DRO LA PHEN CHER SANGYE DU PA SHOK SANGYE CHOD DANG SOG GYI CHOG NAMTHA CHANG CHUG PA DU DANG NYID KYAM SU CHING DAG GIS CHEN YIN GYI PASEN NAM GYI DRO LA PHEN CHER SANGYE DU PA SHOK SANGYE CHOD DANG SOG GYI CHOG NAMTHA CHANG CHUG PA DU DANG NYID KYAM SU CHING DAG GIS CHEN YIN GYI PASEN NAM GYI DRO LA PHEN CHER SANGYE DU PA SHOK Yay!

All right, Miss V, I turned it off. Well, just now, just now, I wasn't sure. Okay, here we go.

And let's get rid of this text.

[Speaker 2]
You're doing a quiz, Geshe La?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Who's the best new baby in the universe?

[Speaker 2]
I think there's five of them that are the best.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I know. It's a new move.

[Speaker 2]
What do you mean the youngest one?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, who's the youngest one?

[Speaker 2]
Maitri.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yay! By the way, Maitri went to get checked by a doctor and he was Indian. And he was really happy about his name.

He was like, yay, what a beautiful name. Let's see here. You okay, V?

223. Okay. All right, can you guys see Adam's text?

No, sir. No, I have to share it. Okay.

Oh, there you go. It's coming. Okay, cool.

We were going to do another trip to Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk, okay? Adam's author quoted the Pramana Vartika. And he said, if you can confirm this with accurate perception, then, THAMS PA NGES LA'I THAMPAD CHE PA TSE MED DU MED First you have to confirm the goal.

And then after that, first you have to confirm nirvana and Buddhahood. And then after that, you have to confirm the higher birth. So it's confusing, right?

Okay? First you should use your correct perception, accurate perception, to confirm the nirvana and Buddhahood. And afterwards, you can confirm the higher birth.

And it seems out of order, right? And to prove his statement, he used a quotation from the Pramana Vartika. LANG DANG DOR BYED DE NYID NI THAB BYED RAB TU NGES PA'I SO BA'I DUN LA MI LUS SPYIR GZHAN LA RJES SUGS PA PA'I LANG DANG DOR BYED DE NYID NI The fact or the truth of what you should take up and what you should give up, together with the method to get to those things, RAB TU NGES PA'I, by perceiving these things correctly, SO BA'I DUN LA MI LUS SPYIR because you are unmistaken in the main point, GZHAN LA RJES SUGS PA PA'I you can make assumptions about the other points, okay?

All right. Yeah, RJES SUGS PA PA means deductions. You can say deductions, okay?

If you're correct about the main point, if you're not mistaken about the main point, then you can draw conclusions about the other points, okay? That's the idea. And if he holds true to his pattern, then it means if you are unmistaken about nirvana and Buddhahood, you can make deductions about higher births, okay?

It's kind of strange, right? He's using... So, I enjoy going to Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk and working out his version of a verse.

Now, here's his commentary to that verse. He covers two shlokas. He covers two verses, okay?

And, SO BA'I DUN LA MI LUS SPYIR Yeah, it's exactly the same, okay? Now, let's see how Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk treats each word of the original verse, okay? And that's his specialty.

He's writing a tsikdrel. What's a tsikdrel?

[Speaker 3]
Word-by-word commentary.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and that's his strength, okay? That's the powerful thing about his approach, okay? By the way, it just occurred to me, Kramer, we could do a...

Maybe we could split it among some people, the different chapters, and do them simultaneously. I don't know. Let's think about it.

Okay. Who's going to read? Dr. Kramer, are you ready?

[Speaker 3]
I am. YI ZHES KYI TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, no, no, not Lok Gyur.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, Kok Gyur.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 3]
YI ZHES KYI TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I should clean this up, but you got to keep going.

[Speaker 3]
TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I... YI ZHES KYI TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I... TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I...

TSIG SHIN DU LOG YUR BSTOD MED PA'I...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, so the root text mentions, by the way, he's making a commentary on two verses, right? So maybe I might suggest we skip to the second verse. Uh-oh.

So, lang dang dor che. Yeah, I'm sorry. Give me a moment to clean this up, okay?

Read the root text to me, Dr. Kramer. Lang dang.

[Speaker 3]
I'm sorry, lang dang, am I looking at it?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, I'm sorry, you don't have it. Right. Okay, forget that.

Lang dang dor ja. Lang dang dor ja.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, sure. Sorry.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Lang dang dor ja, de nyi ni. Tapche. No, lang dang dor ja, tapche rabtu ngepa yin pei.

You got it in front of you.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I got it in front of me.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tap che, read slow. Tap che, rob tu. Hang on.

[Speaker 2]
Can you see it?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Rob tu.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Nge pa, ye.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good.

[Speaker 2]
Ye.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tap, rob tu, rob tu, nge pa, ne, right?

[Speaker 2]
Ye.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ye.

[Speaker 2]
I don't see it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Keep going.

[Speaker 2]
So woi. Back up there after yin pei.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nge pa, yin pei. Right after the rob tu, nge pa.

[Speaker 2]
Third line.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, so we're, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. So woi. Dun, la.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Dun.

[Speaker 2]
La mi.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Lui che.

[Speaker 2]
Lui che. Yeah. La mi, lui che.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Mi.

[Speaker 2]
Mi lu. There I am.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Mi. Mi che. Che.

Yeah. Okay. Shen.

[Speaker 2]
Shen.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. Shen.

[Speaker 2]
La.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
La. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Je su, way down there at the end.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Je su, pa pa ja.

[Speaker 2]
Je su, pa pa yin. Pa. Pa pa yin.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. Yin. Okay, cool.

Now you can see from here, the strength of his presentation. Okay. You can see from here, the power of Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk's presentation, because he has sprinkled in the root text quite skillfully.

Okay. So when he says, the verse says, dor je de ni ni, the fact of what you should take up and what you should give up, he comments on it here. And he says, the things that you should take up, what does gok and lam mean?

[Speaker 3]
It means the cessation in the path.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. The third and fourth are your truth. Okay.

Then dor ja means stuff you should give up, which is? Duk kun kun.

[Speaker 3]
Suffering in its source.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah. Ngupo top gi tsema, do you guys know, ngupo top?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. It's logic. It's a logical perception based on the power of things to function.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Meaning, okay, and that's, by the way, that's a synonym for Buddhist logic. Ngupo top gi rigpa.

Yeah. The power of the thing. Power of the thing.

And it refers to the power of tua.

[Speaker 3]
Tua. Well, I remember relating to causation, but I don't remember tua.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, what's a tua? Duk den gi lama chu ching.

[Speaker 3]
Tua.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Me yu te, tua yu be yi ching. Like smoke, mountain pass? Yeah, so smoke.

Yeah. Smoke is a [?], and it has a tua, okay? Yeah.

Smoke is a functioning thing, and it has a power to indicate.

[Speaker 3]
It's cause.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it's cause. So logic in general is sometimes called the power of the thing, okay? The power of the thing.

And it means the power of the reason gives you an insight into what you're trying to prove. Okay, cool? So he could have said rik te, but he's trying to be cute, and he is cute.

Okay, so let's take the things you wanna achieve, which is the truth of the path and the truth of the cessation. Let's take the things you want to get rid of, which is the truth of suffering, the truth of the source of suffering, along with the methods for doing those two, okay? Along with the methods for taking up two of them and getting rid of two of them, okay?

If they are confirmed by a ngutop tsema, okay? By good logic, okay? Then about the main meaning, which is the four truths, okay?

The main meaning, the four truths, you will have an insight that they are milua.

[Speaker 3]
Unerring.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Unerring, yeah. Two of them are unerringly to give up. Two of them are unerring to be get rid of, okay?

You can decide that. And those are not kokyur. I mean, those are kokyur, but there's others which are shinko.

What's shinko?

[Speaker 2]
Very subtle.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. And those things you can confirm through.

[Speaker 3]
Of the sange.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Through a jepak tsema, a deductive perception based on Buddha's sense of, you can say Buddha's sense of, okay? Yeah.

Now, what's that got to do with what we were trying to prove? Yeah. Thank you.

We were trying to prove that you should prove where you're going first, and then you can talk about higher birth, okay? Make any sense? Do you guys see anything here?

[Speaker 2]
Oh. Which to give up and which to take up.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Which birth? Well, check this out. What he said the verse before.

What he said the paragraph before. He says, if you want to talk about how these things should be generated in your mind stream, okay, first you have to get to a higher rebirth, and then you'll have the turn to reach nirvana and Buddhahood, okay? All right, got it?

So as far as the order between the higher rebirth and nirvana and Buddhahood, which one comes first? Higher rebirth. Yeah, and then you get to nirvana and Buddhahood, okay?

So as far as the order, it should be, first you get into a human rebirth, and then you have the leisure and fortune to collect the causes to reach nirvana, okay? Now, if you're talking about deduction, which comes first? According to you.

Smoke or fire?

[Speaker 2]
Fire. According to you. Fire.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Smoke. No, what do you see first? Smoke.

[Speaker 2]
Fire.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
In the story of the Smoky Mountain Pass, and you're in a fire ranger station 10 miles away, the first thing you see is? Is the result. And based on that, you deduce the?

Cause. So can we say that if you see a person has achieved Buddhahood, they must have had a human birth before that?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
One is a result, and one is a cause. You see what I'm saying? Got it?

Yeah. You guys okay? You got it?

Yeah. Okay. Then he says, look, if you perceive that someone reached nirvana and Buddhahood, then you can assume that they have reached a higher rebirth.

Okay. He uses Dharmakirti to prove that. Okay.

Got it?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You guys okay? All right. Not easy.

And here we go. Here we go. I think Utpala wants to read and Nick wants to check.

That's what I understood.

[Speaker 2]
When you see a person has achieved Buddhahood, you can assume that they have reached a higher rebirth. And when you see a person has achieved Buddhahood, you can assume that they have reached a higher rebirth.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. Töpi temba ni, as opposed to lungi temba. What's that mean, Utpala?

[Speaker 2]
That means neutral.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, no, no. Oh. This is the thing that was discussed at the end of the Abhidharmakosha.

Prophesize, rather.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, prophesize.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This is realized rather than prophesized. So physical as opposed to in the mind of people. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, lungi temba means the physical teachings like video recordings. Sorry, okay. Töpi temba ni.

Yeah, the teaching says they exist in the hearts of people. Depa sum gyi lang dang derpa chepa yin la. These are the paths, which are mental, right?

Lam tsar topa dun chi. Realization is a synonym for path, okay? So the paths of the three yanas along with their results, okay?

Equals topi temba, because path in Buddhism means state of mind, okay? Nge le kyi ko pang thap tun chepa le shen ma yinpe yin she. And actually it is nothing other than definite good.

And definite good is also discussed in the Abhidharmakosha. And it's mainly in the kosher, it's mainly nirvana, okay? So definite good means nirvana and Buddhahood, okay?

So we can say that the teaching in the form of ideas in people's minds is nothing other than the state of nirvana and Buddhahood along with the means to reach it, thap tun chepa, okay? Along with the means to reach it, okay? Shen ma, nothing other than that, okay?

gyur ja topi tempa tse me dupe go ne. gyur ja lung gi tempa kyi me pa dupa. gyur ja topi tempa tse me dupe go ne.

If you can confirm that the subject being described in those books on pramana, okay, is the teachings as they occur in people's minds, okay, then you can prove that lung gi tempa is correct.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, then you can prove that the physical dharma is correct, the books and such.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
When you prove the result of the physical scriptures, then if you can confirm the result that someone got from a book, you are thereby confirming the... Books. The book, okay?

That's all. If you can confirm the result that a person got from a book, in that way, the result confirms the cause in the same way that smoke confirms fire, in the same way that reaching nirvana and buddhahood confirms the what you did during your higher birth, okay? How's that?

Okay, next, who's gonna read? Paula, can you be the picker? Sure.

[Speaker 2]
I don't have the time to look.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, who's checking?

[Speaker 2]
Venerable Jigme.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Who's reading?

[Speaker 2]
Venerable Chundun.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, let's go, Jigme.

[Speaker 2]
Tempa kyunme pa jupana. Dehi thaki tongpa tseme. Kebur jupa jepa yin ching.

Tempe dun sul shin lu jukpe. Gen dun yang chin chi ma lokpa jupa yin no.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nice, okay. Don't forget that one of the main purposes of Dharmakirti's writings is to confirm that the Buddha is a person who cannot... Lie.

Lie, okay? I call it, it's called tsemay kyebu, okay? Tsemay kyebu.

It means an infallible person, okay? Here it is here, in the end of the first line. Tsemay kyebu, a person of pramana, a person who cannot lie, okay?

Now, if you can confirm that people can reach Buddhahood through a certain method, then you are confirming the validity of the books, okay? If you confirm the validity of the books, then based on that as a reason, you can confirm the validity of the?

[Speaker 2]
The truth of the Buddha.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Of the teacher. Yeah, of the teacher, okay? So people who have reached Buddhahood are a proof for the validity of the books.

The validity of the books is a proof of the validity of the person who taught the books, okay? That's what it's saying here, tsemay kyebu [?]. denpay dun, tsultrim du druppay geng du yang chik chenpa loppa druppo And by extension, okay?

By extension, you can also prove that the sangha, the community of people who put into practice, I'm sorry, the sangha or the community of people who practice what was taught correctly, denpay dun, tsultrim du druppay if you prove the teacher is valid, then you also prove that the people who follow that teacher correctly are chen gyi ma lop, are unmistaken, okay? By establishing the unmistakability of the teacher, you thereby establish the unmistakability of the community that gathers around the teacher if they are following what the teacher said.

[Speaker 2]
Too bad we can't read others' minds, huh?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. All right, here we go. You're gonna choose for me, Utpala.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Oh, where did their name go? Linda Wu, can you check?

Who can check? Can you tell me technically? Is it just panelists or is it also attendees?

[Speaker 3]
We'd have to make them- Just panelists.

[Speaker 2]
Just panelists. Okay, I'm sorry, Linda. Then Isabel Xiao, could you please check Gina Rivera?

Yes. Good. G-I-N-A, G-I-N-A, G-I-N-A, G-I-N-A.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, nice, Gina. Thank you again for these beautiful books. You are amazing.

Okay, Tonpa Sangye Nyakchik. Mr. Wu, you got Nyakchik for me? individual freedom.

The one and only? Yeah, the one and only, okay? That it is the Buddha and only the Buddha that Djordunye La, Semenkyeva Drupada, those who seek to achieve liberation can establish is a person who cannot lie, okay?

So those who want to get to Buddhahood should understand that it is the Buddha and only the Buddha who is a person who cannot lie, okay? He's always right. So it's not your husband or your wife who's always right.

It's the Buddha, okay? All right, Rechen Tadak, beings of all different tracts, okay, of all different types, Nyen Tu, Rangsangye, Thachyam, okay? Kyi dun jar dupay nying je dang.

If you are a person who has compassion, which means that you want to achieve the goals of people of all kinds, okay? Dull people, medium people, smart people, okay? If you have that kind of compassion and if you have lak sam nam dak, what's that, you guys?

[Speaker 2]
Personal responsibility.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, if you take responsibility for the entire universe and every person in it, okay? Which means you are a Thekpa Chombu, Mahayanist. Then you're a Mahayana person, okay?

People like that who have compassion for all kinds of beings, people like that who take responsibility for all types of beings, okay? They should understand that if you look for somebody other than the Buddha, okay, Sangye Lekshen La, okay? If you look for somebody other than the Buddha, RIG CHEN GSUM GYI DANG PHYIR PA'I NUS PA, who has the power to do what needs to be done for all three types of beings, okay?

You won't find them, MEPA, okay? Once you understand the concept of a person who cannot lie and you care about the people of the universe and you want to help them and you go looking for someone who can help them, there's only one, okay? Then we should try to come to see that nobody else has that ability, okay?

And NGE ZHES DING TZUG, okay? NGE ZHES DING TZUG. DING TZUG, I think, is a new word for you guys.

Word, do you have a human dictionary? That's my test. From the depths of our heart, from the depths.

Yeah, good, good. DING means the bottom of the ocean, okay? And DING TZUG means that deep down in the bottom of your heart.

NGE ZHES means you should come to feel certainty. You should come to a sense of certainty that there's only one person who can help everybody, okay? Having come to that certainty, okay?

You should think to yourself, here we go. Who's reading, Utpala?

[Speaker 2]
Let's see, Stanley is reading and Timothy is checking.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yay, Timothy!

[Speaker 3]
OK, SANG GAY TOK PA CHIAU NAM BAE PHET CHEN SEM PHE NGAR MA NAM KAI SHING Kaipa. Kaipa. Kaipa.

Kaipa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Kaipa. You're right.

[Speaker 3]
Kepa nam kye shing, kepa nam la yik tok de, gyu gyu la.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good, okay. Then you have to get thechen sem kyi, which is what, you guys?

[Speaker 2]
You have to get Mahayana bodhichitta.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good, yeah, bodhichitta. Is there any other kind of bodhichitta?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 3]
Depends on what school you ask.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, well, kind of lower-middle way would say three kinds. But anyway, okay. Sangye toppa jang, kind of.

Okay, sangye toppa jang. You have to think to yourself, I'd like to have become a Buddha because that's the only person who can help everybody. And so first you try to get, if you don't have Mahayana bodhichitta before ngar, then you try to get it, kye.

Okay, ngar ma kyepa, those feelings of the wishful enlightenment that you didn't have before, you try to develop them, okay? And if you've already developed them, feelings of trying to help everyone in the universe, then you try not to... Lose them.

[Speaker 2]
Lose it. Or turn back from it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good, good. And this certainty that nobody else but the Buddha can help everybody is going to help you, gyur gyur. It's going to help you, prevent you from falling back from that wish.

And it's going to help you to get that wish, okay? All right, here we go again. Utpala.

[Speaker 2]
So Gibson is reading and [?] is checking.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Okay. [?].

Thank you. Nirvana. Takyang.

Sangye. Nyangchit. Rohwa.

Tungye. Khi. Tumpa.

Iche. Ne. Gedembe.

Rangla. Tenne. Rohwa.

Le. Rohwa. Tokhi.

Chuti. Le. Chirotu.

Gyur. Gyatso. Khi.

Tenpa Lha. Ko. Le.

Rohwa. Tophi. Yud.

Ban. Ma. In.

No. Nyangchit. Gyur.

Khi. Khi. Chuti.

Le. Tumpa. Tenpa.

Lha. Shi. Ne.

Tepa. Rohwa. Gyur.

Wa. In. No.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nice. Nice pronunciation, Mr. Gibson. THAR PO TZAM DU NYON YANG BA DAG KYANG Even if all you aspire to do is to reach what?

Liberation for yourself. Yeah, a nirvana, right? Still, you're going to have to, SANG NYID NAG CHIG SBYOR DU NYER KYI THUB PA YUL CHEN NI You're going to have to reach a kind of belief where you see that it's only the Buddha that can help people who want to achieve a lower goal, nirvana, okay?

Okay, and then you're going to have to realize that I should then, that LAM DU GCIG BSTAN, I should rely on the path which the Buddha taught, okay? If I do that, I will KHOR BA LAS GROL, what's that mean? Free myself from samsara.

Yeah. Now, I'm going to split this because it'd be easier for you guys. Anybody want to tell me CHU ROL TU GYUR PA?

CHU ROL TU GYUR PA? Go, I'll achieve, go to the other side. CHU ROL means outside, right?

Oh, CHU ROL NAG PARO, teachings of outsiders. Yeah, now, this is a cool phrase here because CHU ROL PA means outsider, which means non-Buddhist, right? Someone who doesn't follow Buddhism is called an outsider.

But here, he's making a pun. What's the pun word? He's joking that, yeah, teachings of outsiders and being like outside the Dharma?

Yeah, if you choose to step outside of this teaching, be, can be, okay? And you decide to go over to teachings like Serkya. Okay, Ben, who's Serkya?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, Vatsiputra.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I went and stole your text.

[Speaker 3]
Kapila, right, okay, cool.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's the, there you go. So, I think your text is going to be useful for many years for us, for all of us, you know?

For weird Hindus that we don't remember, okay? All right, so then if you get outside of this Buddhist teaching, you're going to wander over to, you know, the latest psychology. And there's no way that you [?], bro.

You're from Samsara? Yeah, that you get out of Samsara. You have to NGES PA SKYE.

You have to try to come to a realization that this is 100% true. If you slip outside of the teaching of the [?] and bodhichitta, then the odds that you will be freed from Samsara is zero, okay? SKYE STE.

CHUD DE'I PA'I LTAM PA DANG LTAM PA LA ZHES NI DE PA THOB PA GYUR. What's, here's the crucial thing, okay? What's the difference between DE PA and ZHES NI DE PA?

Oh, faith based on understanding rather than faith based on...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, it's good.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Just because you feel like... Yeah, so what he's selling here is not Buddhism. And what he's selling here is not the Buddha.

He's selling you ZHES NI DE PA. What's that? Nick, what is that?

Using your logic to conjure faith rather than... So this whole long part here where basically he's saying non-Buddhists are dumb and Buddhists are smart. Then when he wraps it up, he says, the point I'm trying to make is you have to use your clear thinking.

You have to use logic to prove that a system is correct. And then you have to follow it. That's all.

That's all, okay? ZHES NI DE PA means this Dharma, okay? This Dharma, this here Dharma.

Okay, DE PA means this here Dharma, okay? This here teacher and this here teaching, you will get faith in them because you understand them, okay? And that's crucial for him.

That's crucial for him, okay? He's trying to sell you... What's he been trying to do so far in this book?

[Speaker 2]
Proof that logic is a part of Buddhism.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah. Good, good, good. Okay, cool.

And by the way, he has introduced us to the idea that we have to prove that the Buddha cannot lie. And then we can relax and just follow what he said for what class of objects?

[Speaker 3]
Shintokukyo.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yay! Yeah, very hidden objects, okay? So that's the whole point here.

He's trying to say, we're trying to confirm things that are beyond the human mind, okay? Basically, we are trying to confirm that it's possible to help every living being in the universe at the same time. It's unthinkable.

You cannot figure it out. So you have to depend on someone else that you trust. But that person that you trust is going to have to be the one person in the world who cannot lie.

And if they say something works, then you just follow it blindly, okay? Because it's logical. Got it?

Yes, sir. Two minutes, by the way, Geshe La. It's kind of cool, right?

I think you should write that down, you guys. Follow it blindly because it's logical. All right.

Geshe La, is the term kibu in Sanskrit a pramanaka? Pramanaka? I don't honestly know.

It's probably pramanajana or something, or pramanavajana or something. You can check it in Lokesh Chandra. Okay.

I bet there's jana or something for kibu. All right. I'm going to...

We have a few minutes, right? Let's not waste the time. One minute.

Okay. Utpala, let's read up to the cursor.

[Speaker 3]
Pramana purusha.

[Speaker 2]
Pramana what?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Purusha. Purusha.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Now, first he said, if you want to achieve Buddhahood, blah, blah, blah. Then he said, if you want to achieve nirvana, blah, blah, blah. And now he's just saying, okay, if you just want to get some happiness in the next world.

All right. Kyebu, any person. Jigten shen gyi dewa tsam shik.

Just a good trip to the next world. Nganpa chokpa dang dun yu nirwa. If you're attracted to that, if that's what's important to you, still, dunpa sangye nyak chik.

What's that mean? The one and only teaching is not the Buddha. Yeah.

It's only the Buddha who is, it's only the teacher, the sangye, who is attending to you. Okay. You're still going to have to prove that Lord Buddha was believable, trustable.

Okay. That's all. All right.

And the way you do that is with logic. You use logic to prove that a person cannot lie, and then you can trust what he says about things you cannot see. Cool?

Wow. Very cool. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Geshe La.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Stop here. I think two, two more minutes.

Okay, yay. Yes, sir. Thank you, Geshe La.

Oh. Uh, what was it. Sakyamuni, Bhagavan, Surya, Pranayama, and Dharma.

Sri Ram, Vishnu, Yogini, Dekha, and Dhamma.

[Speaker 3]
Sangye, Chikki, Vishnu, and Sarvi, Drogo, Nanda, Srimad, Gopal, Shok, and Jango, Ramana, and Bhagavan.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Geva, Dheema, Goswami, Sarma, Ramesh, Ganesha, Sankrishna, Saraswati, By the way, Adam's not feeling well, so if you guys can send him a note and just say you know that we missed him, I think it's good, cool? Thanks, guys. I'll see you tomorrow.

Oh, who's answering questions? This is great.