Бен Крамер — Книга 2: Драгоценность истинной мысли (Геше Йеше Вангчук о Дхармакирти), занятие 21

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Are you talking Mr. Kramer? Sorry, go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
I hear my own voice. Okay, cool. Here is he goesies.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ew, Homer, dude. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, get you guys out of the way. Here we go. How did Master Ishvarasena suggest we should establish the positive and negative necessities?

What's wrong with the position? And give me the Tibetan names for the two. That's the easy part.

What are the Tibetan names for the two? Je khyab, dok khyab. Je khyab, dok khyab, cool.

I'll take it. How did he suggest we should establish them? Totally.

Okay, what is the je khyab? Does that help us?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What is, if it is, if it is the, if it is the reason, then.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
If it is, it is too.

[Speaker 2]
And how do you, how would you go about checking to see if that's true?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
For any given syllogism, inserting those two elements in?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, so if we say, sound is a changing thing because it's made. If we say, are made things changing? Yes.

What would we have to do to establish whether or not made things are changing?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh yeah, we would have to know. We have to be familiar with both things that are made and things that are changing.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, what would he say you have to do in reference to made things and changing things? What would he say you have to do to check to see if a made thing is necessarily changing?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, no all made things or something?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, not just all, but each and every. Each and every, yeah. Yeah, right.

That one by one, you would have to go through and see, he said that the positive necessity has to be established by confirming that the assertion in this case, it's made is true of every single thing that the reason is true of. That every single thing which is impermanent.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Hey Ben.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So we, everybody, we all go to work out together and some people are swimming today. And I thought, I was in inside the gym and I thought I saw Seiji get in the pool. And I asked Marie and Peter, I think Seiji was here.

And they said, no, that wasn't him, he wasn't here. And then I was thinking about this discussion because to say Seiji was not there, they had to look in all corners of the pool, right? You can't look at one quarter of the pool and say he's not there, right?

I say it's fine.

[Speaker 2]
Right, and to look in one corner of the pool, you have to look in all four corners of that one corner.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, that's for sure. No, it depends on how big Seiji is.

[Speaker 2]
Hey, did I do this backwards by the way, anybody? Should I have said this? He said that the positive necessity must be established by confirming that the assertion is true, that they are made is true of every single thing that the reason is true of that, you know, I buy it.

I think that's it.

[Student]
Yeah, that's what you said.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay, good. All right, I'm standing by it. Okay, and then inversely, right?

Oh, I could have put this in a more intuitive place. He said that the negative necessity must be established by confirming that the assertion is untrue of every single thing that the reason is not true of. So the negative necessity must be established by confirming that they are impermanent, sorry, they are changing, is untrue of every single thing that is not, cricket, cricket.

Made. Great. What's the problem with that?

No one can do that. Why not?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You have to be omniscient. Yay, good to know.

[Speaker 2]
That's interesting, yes. So that's, so somebody could do it maybe, just like somebody could check all the, even, yeah, right. You'd have to do them all at the same time.

It seems like, right? Same problem with Seiji and the pool. Yeah, cool.

We're gonna call it forever on the Seiji and the pool problem. Uh-oh. Good.

Okay, so there can be countless examples of things that an assertion applies to or it doesn't apply to, and no one could ever, no one could ever check every single thing, for example, that is made, to see if each one of them is changing. So that's pretty hard. Whoa, what then is the correct way to set forth the positive and negative necessities?

And what is the Tibetan name for the general concept which is necessary for thinking about the way we establish these two relationships?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Whoa, that's Seiji. Seiji.

[Speaker 2]
What's the general principle? There's a term. There's one term I'm looking for, and this term is the one that should unlock.

Our understanding should unlock. It's suggested that it would hypothetically unlock our understanding of the dok khyab and the je khyab, not necessarily in that order. Mithun?

Yay, yeah, mithun. Meaning what word? Ooh, things that are mutual.

Yeah, you could say mithun, right? Short for mithun chok. But I was kind of imagining you would give me the easier one, which is tun chok, because I think if you understand the tun chok, then you understand the mithun chok.

But- One thing that is, one thing that is, I don't know, wait, how do you say it? No, not here, it's not. It's not.

I think you're going down the wrong road. In danger. Yeah, in this case, the tun chok relates to the assertion.

So it is tun with the assertion. Using the word with?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Technically, you'd have to say drub je chok, the element in the assertion. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
We do, I mean, in English, casually, we do call that an assertion. Yeah, you can say that. At least casually, even if, right?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Technically, it has to say the quality being asserted. Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Right, yeah, right. The thing that we're saying is true. Yeah.

So what then is the correct way to set forth the positive necessity, as opposed to checking for things one by one, and somehow relates to a tun chok?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What's this?

[Speaker 2]
I mean, I don't know what the answer you're looking for, but if Geshe La can check all four quadrants of the pool. If Geshe La can, it's the Seiji and the pool problem. If, I'm gonna try to get that started.

If Geshe La can check all four quadrants, right? And each quadrant has four quadrants, then that means he can check one place, the pool. You see?

So you can check one place, right? Which is the tun chok, the set of things which are like the assertion, or the, you could say the asserted quality, but that's gonna start to be unwieldy. I'm nervous about saying that.

[Student]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I'm open. We can say whatever you want in the end. Damn right, we will.

But I have this fantasy that people, I don't know, that it will be intelligible, but I don't know. It's hard. It's really hard.

With these books. So generally speaking, to demonstrate the positive necessity, it is enough just to see that things the reason are true of are seen in the group of things that are similar to the assertion. So meaning, right?

It is enough to see that things which are made, right? Are seen in the group of things that are like things that are changing. The tun chok, the group of things that are changing.

And you should find made things in there.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, on principles and not on individual cases.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Just on the tun chok. I mean, if I'm understanding correctly, and that's dubious, like the tun chok, it's almost like you're checking one object.

Like you're checking the whole pool. You're just checking the tun chok.

[Student]
Right. As a genre, yes.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Yeah. And especially in this school, right?

Isn't the tun chok kind of a, it's one object because it's a chi. It's a rik chi [?]. It's a single unchanging archetype.

The idea of that group of things, maybe. We'll see. He's throwing us in at the deep end.

He's got 51 years to explain it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I think it's 50 and a half now. I'm not sure.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, good. Great. Cool.

Oh, here, this is what you deserve after that punishment. Where and when was Master Dharmakirti born?

[Student]
I don't know.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I don't know. Trimalaya? Trees?

Something like that?

[Speaker 2]
I made it easier than that because we're still, we're still fuzzy on the actual names of the places. And I have a, I'm going to have to study that. So just get more roughly.

Oh, South India. Great. South India.

Cool. Good. You picked the right half of the pool.

[Student]
Land of the Aryans.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, great. the south part of the land of the Aryas. Yeah.

And what's the Tibetan, oh, when was he born?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Around 700?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, well, yeah, right. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's exactly right.

So, and he says, right, the beginning of the, actually, he says the beginning of the 7th century, so I always get those confused, but I guess that's around 800, isn't it?

[Student]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
It is.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That would be 600.

[Speaker 2]
I was getting, I told you I was getting confused.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I personally don't think the 1900s was the 20th century.

[Speaker 2]
If I didn't get it wrong that time, then you couldn't trust me when I say I always get it confused. Tibetan term for a year in the Western calendar. Chilo?

Right, yeah, that sounds familiar.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
By the way, that's a word which you can safely mispronounce. The same whether you say chilo or chilo.

[Speaker 2]
Chilo, no, I don't get it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's sometimes called outer year, chilo. Sometimes it's called chilo, S-P-Y-I-L-O. Chilo year.

You see both, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, okay, cool. All right, but in this spelling, this one means outer, but you could do it to mean general.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Generally accepted calendar in this world at this time, it'll change. It always changes. Things from Tim's birth [?] later.

[Speaker 2]
I'm still, I'm stumped here for now.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This is messy.

[Speaker 2]
I'm going to keep looking for more versions. Neither of these are attractive.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, that's giving me a stomachache. Why did I try to warn you about as far as the nyah?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, you said that it could be an owl, but it doesn't look like it. Or an ah, rather, but it doesn't.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nyah could be the elision, the elision character in Sanskrit.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, fascinating, but not with a yadak.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, not with a yadak. The fact that nyah can never be written with a yadak, it doesn't make any sense. Unless it was a Y or something.

[Speaker 2]
Right, yeah, that's what I was thinking. Could it be, right, the nyah, the palatal nasal?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I personally sense that it might be the elision. So they have a mark similar to a nyah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Actually, it's slightly different. It has crooked pieces on it, and it means we dropped an A here. So when you go trying to find it, just be aware you might be looking for something like Raudrana or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
That's great. That may or may not turn out to be really helpful, but it definitely gives me more fuel to go digging.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
By the way, there is a famous city of Udayana, which was called Raudrana. And I wonder. That was the city of King Udayana of the Wheel of Life.

But his city was called Raudrana. So anyway, good luck.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's a good way to spend a half a day.

[Speaker 2]
Cool. I don't have a whole lot of... Right, yeah, totally.

Another half a day. This time a fruitful one. So I have nothing else to say except that his father was a non-Buddhist Brahmin sage by that name.

Kuntukgyu seems like a wandering sage or something.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I think it's a school, a Brahmin school, and I think you had it in your book.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the Kuntukgyu was or something?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Kuntukgyu was. I think it can mean a homeless sage who wandered across the place. But if I'm not mistaken, it was a school in your book.

I'm not sure.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I'll look for that and see if that... That doesn't sound familiar to me, but that proves nothing.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It could be.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay. All right, cool. Well, great.

So then more...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nice. From a young age, Master Dharmakirti possessed a brilliant natural capacity. Good.

Natural for Kitab [?] is nice. For wisdom with an intellect. Perfect.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, how nice. Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
He worked hard to [?] his learning in great sciences. What's the two more?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, shared. I mean, yeah, right. Shared science.

Oh, great.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Shared by Buddhist and non-Buddhist. Like logic, architecture, fine arts, medicine, Sanskrit. But not the fifth science, which is Buddhism.

Okay, good.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, well, that's interesting because of their fifth.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, here it is. He studied so hard. And there's the important to distinguish between your S's and your Z's.

Which is medicine. The science of fixing people, like in Sojong. The science of zo, which means the fine arts.

Like art, music, poetry. Sorry, art and music. Sculpture.

The study of Sanskrit. That's okay. You can call it linguistics.

Logic. Et cetera. You got to have an et cetera in here.

[Speaker 2]
Well, wait. Oh, so that's it. Okay, so the et cetera goes there.

Yeah. What's et cetera then if it's not?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What's not included there?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, so that's a research, you know.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The five major sciences, the five minor sciences. Good luck. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
You said that if the et cetera goes, isn't the et cetera then standing for the fifth?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, because it says it was taught to him by. It doesn't say five. By Buddhist scholars.

I'm not Buddhist scholars.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So he just wants to show stuff that wasn't technically mentioned in the shared arts. And then he studied the Vedas of the non-Buddhists, yeah, along with their branches. What are those called?

There's a name.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I thought this was like sciences.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Anyway, branched off from the Vedas.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, like Puranas or?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Maybe, yeah. What's that, Anga? Yeah, I don't know.

Why don't we say with all this, with all their associated texts. He worked hard. Good.

Jangtse in a long way. And then, yun ring mang gor. Mang gor means to take a long time.

[Speaker 2]
Oh. Oh, it took him a long time. He's still a baby though.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Before yun ring mang gor.

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah, it didn't take him a long time, right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it didn't take him very long.

[Speaker 2]
No time at all.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Before he was that, before he had khyenpa gyepa in all of these rikmes. Before he had a mastery of all these sciences. And then, his father-in-law runs past [?].

Yeah, nice. In a single voice. Saying.

[Speaker 2]
Here, let's scoot this down.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Never has. From Milky Ocean. Yeah, the ocean of milk, right.

Which is related to the beginning of the world according to the Hindus. Okay. And who's singing the praises are all Hindus.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

That the lodro is being compared to. Right, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I tried to, okay. Okay, I tried to kind of fudge it with like radiant brilliance. Because I've thought like lodro and.

And saser were both kind of touched by the word brilliance.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, here it is. You got to get the capture the sense of the wisdom being like the sun. And it's tripping.

It's ser, ö ser. Which are very tsawa. Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Hot, right. You see, I tried to say radiant brilliance somehow to cover it. Radiant meaning hot.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, sending out.

[Speaker 2]
Meaning shining.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, sending out warm rays of light. And what's the effect of warm rays of light on a body of water? You get.

Sokye, yeah. The child of the waters. Good.

The young child of the waters. Dab ma dong du gyi. Yeah, this gye means what?

Do you know?

[Speaker 2]
I mean this gye, I mean. Means like to expand, but I took it to mean like. Essentially like blooming or growing.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it's split open. Yeah, gye. Gye means, it's also the word for a share of the money offered to the monks at a prayer.

They split. The sun is splitting. The...

[Student]
Split, split, split.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
...put on all my needs... ...Oh my. Sorry, the dabma is our gig [?].

[Speaker 2]
The petals are blooming.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the petals are opening, splitting open. And... And this is clear-minded honey bees.

The last of them bloomed and opened. Yeah, the last line is perfect. Nice.

Yes, very clear-minded honeybees, that's a good student for next month.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, boss. All right, thank you. Well, that was tough.

That was tough.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, but you did a good job. And you didn't chicken out, which is the main thing.

[Speaker 2]
Not chicken out.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You didn't say like your dog chewed up the paper.

[Speaker 2]
It was the cat.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It was the cat. Good. Okay, good.

Okay, please read. Who do you want to check you?

[Speaker 2]
Sugeng.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yay.

[Speaker 2]
Cool. Good.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This kind of shimu.

[Speaker 2]
This kind of youngster.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This young man.

[Speaker 2]
At that time, I mean.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, at a certain point in time of his studies, he was seeking the Sungrab of the Buddhas, Shibdu.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, he was... I don't know Shibdu.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What is that in Sanskrit? Vidalia or whatever? No, that's close.

I forget it. Vidalia.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, was he trying to figure out how to defeat the teachings of the Buddha?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You can say deeply. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
He was looking deeply into the teachings or the works of the Buddha.

[Student]
Yeah, excuse me.

[Speaker 2]
Shibdu still means what now? I'm sorry, which one? I thought you said seek.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, he was getting a good... Sorry. He was getting a good close look at the Buddhist scriptures.

Shib means a good close look. Okay. A fine-tuned look.

Okay. He was doing that honorifically.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And then his...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, his seeds from a past life woke up.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Woke up, nice.

[Speaker 2]
Nangwe here, boss?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Honorificizes his seeking.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. Which is already honorific, no?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it is, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, boy.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Super honorific.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And then he got Yiran about the Sange and Chö.

[Speaker 2]
He developed faith about the Buddha and the Dharma.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, some kind of Yiran means...

[Speaker 2]
Action?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Happiness, joy. Yeah. Usually it means to...

Yiran is somebody else's good deed. Right.

[Student]
Rejoice.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, rejoice, yeah. He started to rejoice about the Buddha and the Dharma. Nyingthapane.

[Speaker 2]
Nying... The depths of his heart? Yeah, at his very heart.

Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then his opinion of the Buddhist scriptures and the non-Buddhist scriptures began to diverge like ser and rak.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, like golden...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And brass. Rak means brass. So, he began to differentiate between the different teachings he was getting.

And he saw that some of them were like golden, some of them were like iron. Okay? And then he saw that the Gyalwa Sange Chö...

[Speaker 2]
He saw that the teaching of the... In the works of the conquerors.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, was possessed of gyepten rikpa tayata.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, had endless wisdom or logic here, but it sort of seems to mean wisdom.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Reasonings? You've got to understand gyepten as an adjective, okay? Gyepten is an idiom that you guys don't know yet, I think.

And it means backing up reason. Gyepten means supporting reasoning for the Buddhist teachings. So, he saw that there was infinite different supporting logic for the teachers.

[Student]
Oh, wow.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Gyepten kyi rikpa means logic which backed up what the Buddhists said.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And therefore, he thought, wow, this is tepa.

[Speaker 2]
This is... It's right. I mean...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. And he saw that...

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry. Before we go there, can I just add the... So, like gold and brass, but he makes a reference to the gold that he sees the Gyalwa Sange Chö as gold, but he doesn't make a reference to the brass here, right?

We're just... Oh, got it. Very good then.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, here we go. And by the way, maybe we don't want to split this panel. Let's see.

Okay. Because we're kind of splitting the rak into a different panel.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And then for the brass, mutepe tumpa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the teachings of the non-Buddhists. Well, yeah, the works of the teachers of the non-Buddhists.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and he saw that they niden rikpa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that they didn't have... Logic to back them up, gyepten. Yeah, right, to establish them.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And it's interesting that he's already sensitive to logic.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Who are we talking about here?

[Speaker 2]
Dharmakirti.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Dharmakirti. There's this kid, this teenager saying, but that doesn't make sense. You see, he's already thinking logically.

It's kind of cool. And then he decided that they were mutepe.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, they were wrong.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. And then he saw about the Buddhist teachings, it wasn't like the yam gyuk. Yam gyuk means mindless wandering around.

Like when your GPS breaks and you're looking for Geshe La's house. Yam gyuk means wandering around aimlessly. Okay, yam gyuk.

Then he decided it wasn't like the yam gyuk of the other people.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, right. Yeah, like the wandering around of the non-Buddhist teachers' texts.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and then without planning to, Rangtopke, he got big mudra towards these teachings.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, just by his own virtue? It seems like through the power of all that.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Spontaneously.

[Speaker 2]
Automatically?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it just kind of came up.

[Speaker 2]
Right, he got...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Unbidden in his heart.

[Speaker 2]
He got what towards it? He got Shinto?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
He got attracted to it. Yeah, okay. He started to have mudra for the Buddhist teachings.

Okay. And here's a little poem about what happened.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, oh. Yeah, this is the same dam in the famous opening of the Abhidharmakosha.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Swamp? Yeah, swamp. Yeah, swamp.

Filthy swamp water, okay? Born from the swamp, but... Yeah, which often refers to lotus flowers.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Shell means crystal. Rock crystal. Raktatang means totally pure.

[Speaker 2]
Crystal and pure.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And it implies also transparency.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's used for clear water also. So it comes out of dirty things, but it's as transparent as glass or crystal, okay? And by the way, it's misi.

[Speaker 2]
Impossible.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That the nyugu of nay as a grain.

[Speaker 2]
That this sprout of barley.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Could ever pop up out of salu seed. Salu is a kind of rice.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You can't get basmati... Sorry, you can't get...

[Speaker 2]
Barley from basmati?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Barley from basmati seeds, okay? It's impossible for ser to turn into rak.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, for gold to turn into brass.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. Misi. And by the way, when you list the Rinchen dün, the seven jewels, one of them is gold and one is silver.

So you have to say precious things.

[Student]
Yes.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. So here Rinchen doesn't mean a gemstone.

[Student]
Right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It means precious stuff.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Of which gold is one.

[Student]
Yes.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. And the palpas could never drag down the samachandras.

[Speaker 2]
The... I don't know, palpa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Normal people. Commoners? The commoners.

Meaning the common thinkers.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, could never... Deep means to drag them down? Dreaming gear [?]?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Here it means trick them or deceive them or outsmart them or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Is this parallel to gold can't become brass and...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

[Speaker 2]
Can't be tricked by commoners?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. And by the way, he's reversing the process, right? He went from rak to ser.

Yes. And he went from palpa to samachandra. Which, by the way, doesn't mean bodhisattva necessarily, but great being, okay?

But now he's trying to say you can't get a bad result from a pure teacher. It's not possible to go down. It starts with impurity, but then it goes to purity.

Then again, you don't get expensive grains from cheap grains. It's never... Okay, something like that.

Sorry, salu is the highest form of rice, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. And barley is not so great?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and like corn, the reason the monastery plants corn in India is there's no competition. Everyone hates corn in India. And we grow corn because there's some demand for it and we always get more money.

Okay, so anyway, grains are not as respected as salu rice, this high-quality rice. All right, let's read the rest of here. Is palpa like majority-ers?

Like is it related to the word? When you say palchim, it means majority of the commoners. When you say palpa, it's derogatory.

The common people, meaning normal schmucks. But when you say palchen or palche, the meaning changes to majority. If you say palche, doesn't that mean mainly or something?

Yeah, exactly. Mainly or primarily or something like that, for the most part. Okay, let's read...

It's a little bit weird because we got nine lines. You can't split it. Okay, it's not four and four.

It's not five and five. It's nine. Okay.

Please keep reading. Who's checking you, Dr. Kramer? Don't get out of this.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, Alex [?].

[Geshe Michael Roach]
People have fun criticizing you. I'm just telling you.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. You can do lo yi dor.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Dor? Okay. Dor.

Yeah, dorje would mean diamond. Dor means throw it out. Yong su kompa.

Not gompa. Kompa.

[Speaker 2]
Getting very used to something.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, if you keep practicing this over and over again, your bakchaks will become very tu...

[Speaker 2]
Like strong, fierce.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, strong power. Strong power. You'll see.

And your nam chö, which is viveka.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, your discrimination.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Cognitive wisdom, perhaps.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Will become a sergyi demig.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, it'll become a sergyi demig, like a golden key?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, which is the name of Word's first book. And then you'll be able to yewa, yewa, the go of the bang dzö of the gyalwe sungrab.

[Speaker 2]
Boy, you'll be able to...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
By the way, that sounds like some translations I've read.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, sure.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Translate of, and in, and ba, and the rest is in sentiment.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Those are the hardest Word stuff. Yewa, a divide between...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I think it's a verb.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, divide the door from the wall, I guess. Yeah, right. Open the door.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You open that banter.

[Speaker 2]
Banter means the treasure chest?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Banter means... Treasure house, right? Yeah, a king's room where they keep all their gold and stuff.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Storehouse for gold.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, of the teachings of the conquerors, of the victors.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, if you have the golden key of intelligence, you'll be able to open the treasure chest of the teachings of the Buddha. And then you will... Your toke will be toke by these lekshe rinchens.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, your heart will be like... Toke is like poke, right? Like it'll be pierced.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Stolen away. Stolen away. Your heart is stolen away.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that's sweet.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
By the rinchens, of the lekshes.

[Speaker 2]
By the jewels of the well-spoken...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the jewels of... The eloquent explanation. Yeah, that you find in the treasure box of the teachings of the Buddha.

And at that point, when you translate this, you've got to make a big cut between toke and tram. There should have been a period there or something. I mean, it has to...

The verse has to go on. Now, if you take all the trams, David...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the... I mean, I guess the wisdom of the...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, if you take the knowledge of all the non-Buddhists, in your own mind, lo yi, you will torwa.

[Speaker 2]
You'll cast it off.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, as if it were bumba [?].

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, chaff.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and khyerwa means carried by the wind. You just... And it's really cute if you've been in India, when they have grain to be...

What do you call it when you take the... Winnowed?

[Speaker 2]
Drenched?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Winnowing.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You actually spread it out on the highway, and the cars come by and smash it. And the bumba blows away. The skin on the grain is torn off by the car wheels, and it blows away.

And then you run out on the highway between cars, and you sweep up the grain. And this is the system. And then when you eat that stuff, you break your teeth.

It's wonderful. Okay. Anyway, who cares where the chaff goes?

No one goes, Oh, look, the car came by. We lost the skin on the grain. Nobody wants it.

Okay. All right, good. So once you've got the yummy taste of the pure grain of Buddhism, then non-Buddhism becomes like chaff.

And you don't care if you lose it. All right. We got time to keep going?

Yeah. Who would you like to check now?

[Speaker 2]
Tim.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yay, Timothy. You want to come up here and criticize? It's more fun.

[Student]
All right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You cannot share my dessert. I don't want one. Is dessert going on over there?

You don't know what David is, do you? I do, I do, I know. I'm waiting for mine.

I'm waiting for mine. Of course.

[Speaker 2]
I'm waiting for mine.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. But, you know, he started to respect the Buddhist teachings and see that they're like gold compared to brass and going to the other ones like chaff. But he had not checked by yet a number of them.

[Speaker 2]
He hadn't met a teacher amongst the entire.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And so he couldn't Domba Lama.

[Speaker 2]
So he couldn't take vows.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, he couldn't take Pratimoksha vows in particular. But he so respected just the outward trappings of a.

[Speaker 2]
Of a monk, we assume?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Of an ordained person. He so respected the golden rules. He dressed up like a Nangpe Genyen.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that's going to get him in trouble. Like a, yeah, like a, yeah, you know, a spiritual practitioner of the Buddhists.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, lifetime vows probably means he dressed in the white clothes of a. Okay. Chaluk means he took on the whole shtik, the whole appearance of a white robed lay person with lifetime vows.

Gyurne means he changed his clothes. And he stayed like that. Shukpana.

Then.

[Student]
Uh-oh.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The word rang with an S on it means to enjoy or to be happy with.

[Speaker 2]
Marang.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
You've seen him, you know, his father and their Brahmin. Yeah, his dad and his Brahmin fishing buddies.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And poker buddies. He taught Marang about his Chaluk. Chaluk means his whole appearance.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And his whole setup.

[Speaker 2]
And they gave him the boot.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and they kicked him out of their home, I guess. And their town. Teenager.

Yeah, if you think you've had hard times being a Buddhist, you know, just read these stories sometimes. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
It hasn't been too bad.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You've taken pretty good care of us guys, haven't you?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I've had a good time.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tim's going to take us to this next verse. This is so Ben Kramer. Tell me it's a monkey.

Okay. Okay, we usually see this too, which is... So tell me it's an ape.

Chil means monkey. So, if a bunch of apes catch a me...

[Speaker 2]
A human.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, if a bunch of apes capture a human, and they start to criticize him because he doesn't have a yugma.

[Speaker 2]
He doesn't have a tail.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, what's wrong with you, goddamn? You don't have a tail. You're so weird, you don't have a tail.

[Speaker 2]
Chiyawa here is like criticized? Yeah, that's down here. I had to look it up myself.

Great, thanks.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, so a whole huge crowd of monkeys grabs a human and says, you're not cool, you don't have a tail. And if somebody finally gets onto a chung po lam...

[Speaker 2]
A chung po lam... A real path?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
A straight and narrow? If somebody finally gets on a straight road, it looks what to other people?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it looks crooked to...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Crooked to crooked people.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Isn't that cute? You're just telling... If your parents hassle you for being a Buddhist, you can quote this.

So the crooked people will say he's going to extremes. He's going to fall off extremes. Because to them, straight looks crooked.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Because to them crooked is straight.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. The world, yeah, the world is crazy.

And so if you talk about profound things, the world will call you crazy.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, exactly. And they might crucify you and stuff like that. Okay.

Do you want anybody else? Or are you still buying Tim Lord out here?

[Student]
Tim's out. Let's do this one with Tim. You got the...

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Let's do this. Okay. It was upside down.

You just couldn't see it. All right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Very good.

[Speaker 2]
I'm just not sure. Yeah, this is a beautiful...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
How did Dharmakirti feel about being kicked out of his house and his culture? Like us, I think. He felt like a ngangpa who just ran into a tso full of pemas.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, like a ngangpa is like a goose, a duck?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, like a duck that got thrown into a tso. An ocean. I think it's a lake.

[Speaker 2]
A lake.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Covered with pema.

[Speaker 2]
Covered in lotuses.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, he said, oh, don't throw me out. And leaving home felt like a duck jumping into a pond, covered with lotuses. Gala and dewa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, happy and blissful.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Super happy. Raktage.

[Speaker 2]
Just extremely happy all over the place.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and shin here means visage. Or likeness, meaning face. Shin here means face.

Okay, just get used to it. I'm out of 10,000 [?]. Shin, which means likeness, means your face.

It doesn't mean I like you. He got a big zumbar. Zoom.

[Speaker 2]
I'm going to guess it's a big smile.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, he got a face-splitting smile. Oh, don't throw me out. Oh, he's so bad.

And he was so happy when he got thrown out. It's like they threw a duck in a pond. And he went to Yulu.

[Speaker 2]
To the central land?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, he went to the hotbed of Buddhism in India. He went to the center, you know. And he met some Nangpe Panditas.

[Speaker 2]
Finally met some Buddhist master scholars.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And especially Lopön Chökyong.

[Speaker 2]
And yeah, I guess Master Dharmapala, it certainly looks like.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and then he took refuge, which here is called...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, entered the door?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the door of the Buddhist teachings. Which is a code word for he took refuge. He got his Buddhist name, Dharmakirti.

Oh, here it is.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, good.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Please read this line. Tim's just sitting here. He wants to keep it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, Jeng is Jengu, as in Jengu.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh. A rose. Rose banner?

Yeah, he raised the [?] banner of the Buddhism. And he tore down the Chi rolwe [?].

[Speaker 2]
You know, the false teachings.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, everything non-Buddhism, he tore it down. And this new Tenpe Nyima.

[Speaker 2]
This new light of the teachings, sun of the teachings?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Was super into the world, was welcomed into the world. This new sun of the teachings was welcomed into the world. And there came a new gyaren.

[Speaker 2]
A new gyaren, I don't know.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Daybreak? Yeah, I mean, poetically in English, you're going to say a new dawn. A new age dawned.

A new age for Buddhism dawned in the world.

[Speaker 2]
Choknam, in this case, like direction?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, the whole side of bad teachings.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, and then?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The other half of the world.

[Speaker 2]
Nyil means to like throw away or discard?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it means to take a flag and throw it in the dirt.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, there you wrote it right here again. Super. Thanks.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. You got any time, you guys? We got like 30 seconds.

Okay, never waste 30 seconds. Let's hear your class, Ben. I'll tell Tim.

He'll cursor [?] you on.

[Speaker 2]
Dene sangye gyi sung rab nam la sip tu chang ne. Dene sung la shin du kye par gyur. Do de dang suk ngak dombe.

Chö tsen nga gya tuk la zung ne kha ton dze.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So I'm going to translate it quickly. Then he... Gyalwe, he versed himself very well in the teachings of the Buddha.

And by so doing, he became a super sage in the three baskets of the teaching. And if you combine all the sutras and secret teachings that he memorized...

[Speaker 2]
Dongbam? Memorized? If you add them all up.

Oh, Dongbam, if you combine them all that he memorized?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, then it was a tong of 500 different documents or pieces.

[Student]
Sen here?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Chö tsen means Dharma segments.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, Dharma segments. Oh, I see. Tuk la sung is memorized, okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
500 different pieces.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And he used to condense it. It's presumably in a rak, in a zangkhye [?].

[Speaker 2]
In a sang kye ne.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Very similar to rock.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, in a brass what now?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Presumably in a brass bathtub. Also in a... Yeah, a bathtub.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry, what now? Just kidding.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It doesn't say that. I'm just saying, nowadays when I see recite from memory, kha ton dze.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, kha ton dze.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I always imagine Vasubandhu. Was it Vasubandhu?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sitting in a tub full of sesame seed oil. I got to try that. I'm just worried who's going to clean the bathtub afterwards.

[Student]
Yeah, right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
All right, good job, Dr. Kramer.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, boss.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. Yay. Okay, see you guys tomorrow.

Get some sleep. Yeah. Thank you, Geshe La.

[Student]
Good night, Geshe La. Happy, happy.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Thank you. All right, Nick, if you can't sleep, then take all the stuff in your house and pack it in boxes. Thanks for the tip.

I may just do that. Happy day, happy moon, and everything.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Love you all.

[Student]
Love you all. Happy day, everybody. Geshe La, see this picture.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I don't know where it lives.

[Student]
It's right on the street.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, really? Oh, my God. That's the real thing.

Yeah, it's in China. We still do it nowadays. Yeah.

It's supported by all the dentists in China. All right, see you later, you guys. Ciao.

See you later. Ciao.

[Student]
Yay.