Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 31

[Speaker 2]
and what is wrong to take as literal. And I'm gonna present to you some pairs of literal and wrong to take as literal. And I would like you to choose which of the three is what the mind only school says.

Okay, so what should be taken as literal and what should not be taken as literal. So here's the first set. Making distinctions about whether things exist by definition or not is what should be taken as literal.

And the sutras of the first turning of the wheel is what should not be taken as literal. So that's the first set.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Do we wait till the end to answer?

[Speaker 2]
It's probably a good idea to wait till the end.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, just cool, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
And here's the second set. The way to distinguish whether the three essential natures exist by definition or not as what should be taken literal. And the sutras of the middle turning of the wheel as what should not be taken as literal.

And then the last set. I'm sorry, was there a question?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, please go on.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, then we have the tendency to underrate things is never inborn as what we should take as literal. And the tendency to overrate things is always inborn is what should not be taken as literal.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Aren't they all what the mind only school thinks? Strong B.

[Speaker 2]
Strong B, yeah.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I made the other ones have a slight error.

[Student]
B is super bad.

[Speaker 2]
Well done, Ben. So now, please provide the question for which this is the answer. With regard to the person.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What's another way for a word to make money [?]?

[Speaker 2]
With regard to the person, there's no big difference.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Different emptiness, it's about, right?

[Speaker 2]
So remember what part of the text we were in last time, which is talking about the mind only school's focus on the lack of a self nature. And we started to talk more deeply about this lack of a self nature. And that's okay if you don't remember.

It's what it's about is to what degree to the mind only school and the independent branch of the middle way school agree about the inborn tendency to overestimate a self nature and how it stopped. I know that's hard. I'm really sorry.

[Student]
It's good, but hard. Good and hard.

[Speaker 2]
So now here's another one. If you could provide me the question for this answer. The mind only school's beliefs about the inborn tendency to overestimate a self nature to things and how to successfully refute it.

[Student]
La?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I got it. You got it? Yes, but I'm gonna give a word a chance.

Okay.

[Student]
Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. You too, okay.

[Speaker 2]
What is the ultimate difficult thing to understand?

[Student]
Felt like it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Actually we had the right answer when we couldn't understand it.

[Speaker 2]
Exactly. Everyone passed with flying colors.

[Student]
Must be a magical.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, so we're gonna do a little back and forth. Well, sort of only one back and forth, but what is the Tibetan for this phrase? Lanky.

Learned or inborn. Lanky.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Lanky. I mean, kuntak sam planky.

[Speaker 2]
Kuntak sam planky, correct. Very good. Thank you word.

What is the English for? Mindrawachame.

[Student]
Not many like it.

[Speaker 2]
As a little bit of a hint, you just had this phrase in English earlier in the quiz.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The hardest thing to understand?

[Speaker 2]
No. There's no big difference. And then, chiknik chik.

[Student]
I just punched us there.

[Speaker 2]
Whatever may.

[Student]
Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
There's no big difference anyway.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Very cool.

[Speaker 2]
So now I'll do my homework.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Wait, I thought that was the homework.

[Speaker 2]
No, that was your quiz. And now we're doing my homework.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh.

[Speaker 2]
You gave me homework.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Meg, can you make it big, big, big?

[Speaker 2]
I'm gonna try to make it big.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's hard for old people to read. Oh my gosh.

[Speaker 2]
Is that big enough?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 2]
They said I should- They don't want me to read it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
They don't want me to spit [?] on their screen. Okay, go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh, how so? Checker, okay.

[Speaker 2]
That's nge, ta nge? Ta nge.

[Student]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Student]
Mm-mm. Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Mm.

Mm. Mm. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it's a very difficult paragraph. It's a very long sentence. And you did an excellent job on it.

It's a very excellent job on it. And it's almost completely correct. Only one small correction I would make is ta na'i tsam yang.

Yeah, that means they didn't even know how to talk about it. You see what I mean? They couldn't talk about even the, they couldn't even speak to the wording of the ideas, much less their meanings.

They couldn't even describe them in words, much less give their true meaning. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
And then how would I bridge it to the rest?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
They couldn't even speak to words, much less the meaning of how we establish a lack of self-nature of things by denying how we ascribe differences between the essence and the characteristics. Okay? Speak to the words, much less the meaning of how we ascribe a lack of self-nature to things in the sense of a distinction between the essence and the qualities of things being imaginary or something like that.

How do you say that? Imaginary or made up in your mind. How would you say that?

[Speaker 2]
Mental, just a pure mental construct.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Being constructs, being constructs, yeah. Okay? Constructs in the sense of a distinction between the essence of a thing and the qualities of a thing being itself an artificial distinction.

Okay, and we got to talk about that, okay? And I'll tell you what we're talking about, okay? And if we go through this one paragraph carefully, we save ourselves trouble in the next few pages, okay?

So what he's saying is, look, there's all of these great, there are great masters in Tibet, but only one of them really understood the subtle point of the mind-only school. What's the obvious point of the mind-only school? That when you look at the color blue, you are actually looking at part of the foundation consciousness.

And emptiness in the mind-only school means there's no blue outside, external to the person. So what's the gotcha in the mind-only school? In the fundamental idea of the mind-only school, what's the gotcha?

[Speaker 2]
An outer object.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, a blue which is not in my mind. A blue which is outer, okay? Which exists at a distance from me.

But there's a deeper implication there that only Tsongkapa appreciated. That's what he's saying here. There's a deeper implication here that only Tsongkapa appreciated.

And I'll tell you how I think of it nowadays, and I'm not sure I'm at my final understanding of it. But mo'o dang khyapa, okay? The word mo'o dang khyapa means the essence and the features.

The essence and the features, okay? So the essential object, or the essence of the object, fire, okay? That's essence, mo'o.

What's its features? Hot, burning. Hot, burning, yeah.

Do those features attach to fire self-existently? Yeah, is the connection between fire and heat natural? No, and that's the point that Tsongkapa was trying to make.

And there's some appreciation for this idea in the mind-only school, but you have to dig deep to find it. And he's saying only Tsongkapa, among all the people in Tibet, really appreciated this deeper version of emptiness according to the mind-only school, okay? That's all, that's all.

And other people couldn't even express the words for that idea, much less understand it, okay? That's all, okay? Cool?

[Speaker 2]
Cool. Is kuntak related to shenwang, or?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You could say that, you could say that, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
What did she say?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
She said, does this relate to kuntak, the three characteristics of the mind-only school? Is shenwang somehow kuntak? Is the fact that something can cause something else, like the way that fire causes heat, is that somehow imaginary?

And we say yes, that's correct, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
We with our mind-only hat on.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Well, you know, I think, don't forget the mind-only school is in the first three and a half.

[Student]
Right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So they must be...

[Student]
Functionalists, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Functionalists. Say that the Khenpo doesn't touch on the norm naturally [?].

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So, you know, we got to think about it.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But I think what he's saying, what we saw in the Word's text recently, with the question of, are seeds natural to the person, or are they planted later? Or are they some kind of combination where you take the seed that was never planted and develop it further? What we saw there was three different opinions by three great masters of the mind-only school.

So apparently, in the mind-only school, I'm starting to get the feeling that in the mind-only school, you can have great thinkers who disagree with each other. And they're all still mind-only school, you know? And I think we haven't really scratched the surface of the mind-only school.

If you compare the commentary that we finished on the mind-only school, called The Golden Key, I don't get it, you're a schmuck [?]. If you compare that presentation, which was very difficult, to Tsongkapa's presentation, it looks simple. Okay.

Even on that question. Okay. All right, cool.

All right, good job.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Geshe La.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Very, very difficult paragraph, and you did a great job. I told Veronica, did I tell you that? I did tell you that.

My kids are growing up. It's kind of disturbing. You guys are doing good translations.

I don't know what happened. Probably, it must have been that lunar eclipse or something. Maybe we have a good teacher.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, maybe I have a good teacher.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
All right, but that's an extremely difficult paragraph. I don't know who would give you that. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
The next one isn't exactly easy either, sort of, kind of.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You guys want to take a shot at correcting the presentation? No?

[Student]
No?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Christina, you want to try? Okay, wait. There's a great artist that came to the college today, and I'd like to show you something.

These are the paintings she did in retreat. And let me say something. She hasn't done any art since she was nine years old.

[Student]
Never done any art.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay. I just want to say, it proves that, oops, sorry, going to Diamond Mountain is going to make you famous and artistic. Yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah, it is awesome. There you go. I'll have to see that.

Check this out. Oh my, I'm going. Here, hang on.

Yeah. Anyway. There.

Thanks for sharing, Geshe La.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Extremely beautiful. And so if you want to go to Diamond Mountain, don't forget. Take your paint.

Take your paint.

[Speaker 2]
Take your paint, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, can you see the text? Yeah. Okay, you're going to do the cursor.

Grandpa's going to do she [?]. Good luck. Christina Kasica, the famous artist in retreat.

[Speaker 2]
I knew her when. Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, this is Gyaltsab Je showing his true colors. He was extremely sarcastic. And here you're going to see it, okay.

What's nama rikpa tsam?

[Speaker 2]
Intelligence.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Mind only school. Yep. Yeah.

So it means, it's a synonym for Semtsampa. Okay. That's mind only school.

Only consciousness, right? Jukta.

[Speaker 2]
The philosophical school.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, that philosophical school of the mind only. That's like a gyozo.

[Speaker 2]
It's like an ocean.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah. And if you choose to drive your boat onto that ocean, okay, you need a gyawa. Gyawa means that rudder or tiller.

[Student]
The tiller.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Steer the boat, steering wheel. Okay. What kind of steering wheel?

You need nama rikpa.

[Speaker 2]
Thorough investigation.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Perspicacity. You need...

[Speaker 2]
Perspicacity.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Just kidding. No one's going to use that. It means you got to be a person who can go deep.

You have to have high capacity for examination. Nama rikpa, okay. Only those people, okay.

You're going to have to hold to the rudder of deep logic if you're going to try to cross the ocean of the mind only school. Okay. All right.

And in fact, you better find a lojoki depe.

[Speaker 2]
A sea captain of intellect.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. You better find a sea captain of great intellect, okay. But in this case, those brainy captains, chok le.

They lost their way.

[Speaker 2]
They sail off course.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Were they smart? Yes. Did they use logic?

Yes. Were they masters of the mind only school? Yes.

Did they go the wrong way? Yes. Did they steer their way, try to go to Los Angeles and end up in Peru or something?

Le parkirne. By the way, we have another LA refugee here. Welcome Teddy.

It's good to have Scusio [?]. Good to have you back here. Say hi.

Nick, that's a real surfer, okay. When you get a tan like that, we're going to give you a surfing medal. So this is very funny.

He says, are they smart? Yes. Did they use logic?

Yes. Were they trying to cross the mind only ocean? Yes.

But lam chok norwa. They steered the wrong way. Why?

They didn't get the deeper meaning of blue outside. Got it? They didn't get the deeper meaning of blue outside.

Chepakirne. Luk di shung luk chenpo daki trul che la. The trul che means the great boat.

Trul means boat. Tru means boat. What's an airplane in Tibetan?

[Speaker 2]
Nam kha trul che la.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Nam kha trul che la.

[Speaker 2]
Nam kha trul.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sky boat. Nam kha trul. Sky boat.

So trul means boat, okay. There are people who were hoping to dzekpa, climb into. There were people hoping to climb into the mighty ship, trul che, to cross this great school.

Dzekpa means they were seeking to. It doesn't mean patience. They were seeking to.

But ngoma thokpa nyi du means it didn't do jack shit to them.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That's an English idiom. It didn't do. It didn't help them at all.

Shadag means none of them. None of the Tibetans who tried to cover the mind-only school in the past before Je Tsongkapa, they had good intentions. They did use logic.

You know, they were nice people and they messed it up. Okay. They went to the wrong port.

Got it? Who's talking? This is real Gyaltsab Je.

What? Doesn't shadag mean 100% is the mind? Yeah.

It means not one of them got it right. Shadag, 100% boo-boo. I mean, if you look at all these different guys who wrote commentaries on mind-only, drunken captains, shadag.

Okay, they all went the wrong way. They didn't teach the outside thing wrong. They just didn't get deep into it like Je Tsongkapa did.

Did they understand the blue thing? Yes. Did they understand the fire thing?

No. Good? Okay.

All right. He's not done yet. Okay.

Christina Kasica's got the rudder. I do. I hope you do better.

Me too.

[Student]
Oh, that's not legs.

[Speaker 2]
This is called blow stroke. Blow stroke. Probably low.

[Student]
Blow stroke.

[Speaker 2]
Blow stroke is when you're in a state of mind. Ah, I know. DOR-JAY-SIK-LAH-TAR-CHOK-SANG-YANG TAR!

TAR-CHOK-SANG-YANG-YEH-WAR-MA-NU-TEH-TOB-MEH-PAR-GYUR-PAR-NI-DU-RIK-NEH Nice!

[Geshe Michael Roach]
All right! That was pretty good. Let's go slow, because it's kind of fun to hear Gyaltsab Je ranting.

DEH-TAH-MUH DEH-TAH-MUH. Word?

[Student]
I admit.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Although he's like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, admittedly, that was the case.

They're a bunch of drunken captains, okay? Yeah, that's the way it was. But, okay, but, Je Tamche Khyenpa...

All-Knowing Lord. Our Omniscient Lord.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry, Lord of Omniscience?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, Khyenpa means us guys' Omniscient Lord. He wrote a book about DZANG, DANG, and NADER.

[Speaker 2]
He wrote a book about literal and figurative.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Good. Actually, it's figurative and literal, right? Figurative and literal.

And he distinguished NJ. NJ.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This is not the verb to do. This is a totally different word. NJ.

Which is why we have a pre-nasal. NJ, he distinguished successfully between the parts of Buddhist scripture which were literal and those which were just dumbed down. Okay?

You don't have to say figurative. You could say dumbed down for people who weren't ready for it. Okay?

What's that book called? LEGS PAR BSHAD PA'I SNYING PO The Essence of Eloquence. Yeah, LEGS PAR BSHAD PA'I SNYING PO.

The Essence of Eloquence, okay? Which is Tsongkapa's great classic on interpretation. He invented the art of interpretation.

Seiji, are you there?

[Student]
Man.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, I am. You know, I started to translate Tsongkapa's book, and I never had time to finish it. And I just think it might be kind of fun.

[Student]
Wow. Heavy. That'd be cool.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Are you up for it? Of course.

[Student]
All right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
This ain't. You know what grandma said? This ain't no loan zone [?].

My grandma used to say that, interestingly.

[Student]
I never knew what it meant until now.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
All right. Just fasten your seatbelt, Seiji. Okay.

LHAG PAR. Don't forget, everybody heard him agree. LHAG PAR ZHES.

[Student]
I couldn't see his face, though.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I didn't quite. Doesn't matter. We got the mazal.

We got the mazal. Okay. So, by the way, what's the great...

What's the really great achievement in the lecture in Nyingbo? He clarifies the school, the mind-only school, in the first half, and he clarifies the Lower Middle Way school in the second half.

[Student]
Yeah, right.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And he gave a brilliant series of lectures in Northern India once about the second half. Okay. You should look it up someday.

LHAG PAR ZHES PA'I NYING PO'I SHING LTAR CHEN PO'I LUG System of the Great Chariot. Yeah. So, in that book, he clarified Selva.

Okay. SHING LTAR CHEN PO'I LUG YONGS SU RDZOGS PA Totally, completely. Clarified the system of who?

[Speaker 2]
Mahayana.

[Student]
The great innovator.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The great innovator, the SHING LTAR CHEN PO'I LUG YONGS SU RDZOGS I want a plural here. Innovators. Innovators, LUG ZOGS.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
LHAG PAR ZHES PA'I NYING PO'I SHING LTAR CHEN PO'I LUG YONGS SU RDZOGS Meaning Nagarjuna, meaning the mind-only school and the Middle Way school.

[Speaker 2]
And Asanga, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
He clarified them, Selva. And when he did that, he was certainly displaying, Karbin, there it is. Great, he did us all the kindness of clarifying these schools, especially the mind-only, okay, in that book.

So Seiji, that's not just a book about interpretation. It is one of the greatest presentations of the differences between the mind-only school and the Middle Way school. Okay, Zedu Singkyang.

Zedu Singkyang, sin means, look, he did it. He did it, okay? He finished, sin means he did it.

He already did it, okay? Singkyang means he did it. He already did it, but datte kyo.

So it's a big contrasting wording here. He already finished clarifying the mind-only school, but tanda.

[Speaker 2]
But these days.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Now you still got these people whose lodre is nyam.

[Student]
Understanding is low.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, it's degenerate. Their topi shintu shimpa. Their power sucks completely, okay?

This is Gyaltsab Je. This is Gyaltsab Je.

[Speaker 2]
So which one is the sucks completely? Shintu shimpa?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Shimpa means feeble, okay? Their topi is shintu shimpa, super feeble, okay? Like a grandpa, like a great-grandpa.

In fact, I can only compare them to jipa [?].

[Speaker 2]
To babies.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, and then shimpa is a very delicate word. And it means children who are not old enough yet to know what hurts other people, okay? It's an infant who hasn't reached moral consciousness yet.

And they do things, they'll steal anything, they'll take anything, they'll drop anything, they'll hurt anybody. It's a very violent word to use here. These people are infants who haven't learned that it's wrong to stab people yet.

You see what I mean? There's a moral, their moral judgment hasn't risen yet. That's called shimma, okay?

And how many of these guys are there, Chia Wah? That's a specific word for 10 million.

[Student]
Oh.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I'm surrounded by these guys here in the Kangri, here in this land of snows. I'm surrounded by these guys. Je Tsongkapa already told them what was correct, and they keep doing this, you know?

All right? Chewa [?] Dabu, neck up. The situation is like that, okay?

Tenpa di thadaki. You know, for all of these guys, thadak, that the words of Tsongkapa, dor je dabu. I like a diamond.

I like a diamond. Yeah, they're as unbreakable as a diamond. They approach Tsongkapa, they try to crack the words, uncrackable.

Okay, like diamond is often used in Tibetan as the uncrackable thing, okay? So for them, it's like a diamond door, and they have a banana. And they're trying to break through, you know?

You can quote me later. Dor je zik dar, chok tsam yang yewa ma nu. They're not able to make the slightest, what do you call it?

Crack. Yewa means they can't make a slightest crack in that door. Okay, yewa means nu.

Duk me means they are clueless. So duk me, you've never seen it. A lot of these words you've never seen, and you should never use them, okay?

They are duk me. They are clueless, okay? Rick, who can tell, Rick is a verb, and if you can tell me the subject, I'll give you 200 bucks.

Tsongkapa. Wait, who said that? That's not exactly what I want.

I want the subject from this sentence.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the subject from this sentence.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Khajurin [?]. Khajurin [?]? No.

Okay, cancel the bet. I clearly canceled the bet, or I'm going to collect it from myself. Tam je khenpa.

First line. First line. Je tam je khenpa.

Oh, that's what I said, Rishabh [?]. This is one of those 200 word Tsongkapa sentences. The subject comes in the first line, the verb comes in the last two letters, the last two syllables, okay?

He saw that this was the situation. There's the P-A-S. Khenpa.

Okay? That makes him the subject of the sentence, right? The verb doesn't come until one, two, three, four, five, seven lines later, okay?

Tsongkapa saw that this was the situation. Okay? Rik, he saw.

He got it, you guys? Everybody okay? Yep.

This is fun. I like this kind of spirit. Okay, Christina Kasica's back.

There you go, Rupal. Please don't read too fast.

[Speaker 2]
Kho-bo-s-shin-tu. Kho-bo-s-shin-tu.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
That would be buh, maybe? Kho-buh. Kho-buh.

[Speaker 2]
Kho-buh. Shin-tu-nyung-nguy-tsik-gi-sa-ok-gi-ter-tar-kyur-peh-dun-deng-ni-lag-til-na.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It'd be lak, latin.

[Speaker 2]
Til-na-ne-peh-kyu-ru-ra-ru-ra-tar-nyem-pa-po-da. Peh-lak-lah-sten-par-ten-par-ja-yi-yin-na-wa-lak-te-dug-shik. Tuh-dug.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Dug-shik. Nice. Kho means me.

I. Okay, this is Gyaltsab Je. But I, okay?

Look, I'm going to use sik nyungu, shintu nyungu.

[Student]
Very few words.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, look, I'm not going to use too many words. Don't get nervous. You know what, for you, shintu nyungu.

Just a few words, okay? And I'm going to make this meaning like sa ok der, and der is kosha. Treasure words?

Good. Der means treasure. Sa, ok.

The treasures of the earth, the gold or something. Buried treasure. A buried treasure.

[Student]
Okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
A treasure under the dirt, okay? A buried treasure. And I'm going to dig it up for you, and I'm going to make it like a kyu ru ra, which is a small medicinal olive, okay?

I'm going to use a sushi, okay? Here we go. Okay, everybody can see the sushi, right?

Here, I'm Gyaltsab Je, okay? I'm going to take all the great ideas of Tsongkapa, which are like a hidden treasure chest for you underground. I'm going to dig them up.

Hold your hand out. Hold your hand out. I'm going to put them in the palm of your hand like a sushi in your hand, okay?

And if you can't see that, good luck, okay? It means look in your goddamn hand and there's a sushi there, okay? So it's, you know, it's just like that.

This is Gyaltsab Je style. It's called an olive in your hand, and it means, if you can't see an olive in your hand, God bless you. I'm going home now, okay?

I'm going to take these great ideas. You can put the sushi in your mouth if you want.

[Student]
Oh, can I? Yeah, just put it there.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, so lak til means the palm of your hand, and I'm going to put it right in the palm of your hand, okay? And all of you who are nyam papo, this is going back to the three cups. Who will listen, clearly.

Yeah, you will be a worthy audience. You will be a good audience. Nyam papo.

If you will listen to what I'm saying, okay? Dak la tenpa jang. I'm going to teach you these great ideas hidden under the earth in the treasure chest laid there by Tsongkapa, and I'm going to dig it up, put it in the palm of your hand like a sushi, and you better lak with your nawa.

[Speaker 2]
You better listen with your ears.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Hemi, okay? Duk she, do it. That's Gyaltsab Je, man, he's not a role, okay?

God, you guys, I can help you. Just listen, okay? All right, got it?

It's beautiful. By the way, he's not done yet. No, he's okay.

We still got some time. Let's see here, hang on. You want to keep going?

You all right? You're not traumatized by this stuff? Okay, there you go.

I'm giving the airplane back to you. I'm eating the other sushi here.

[Speaker 2]
De yang nam grel ne ni. Nam grel ne ni su wang she la tepe. Sung zin ze shendu zinpa tshirki bidak zindu.

Shepa ma dak shendu. Shepa ma tok ngo wo dang ke par du kun tak par rangi tseniki drupar. Zinpa tshirki dak zindu jene nge sung wa tar.

Drupar gope su sar war ma shek yang. Shek yang.

[Student]
Okay, good. Okay. All right, good.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry, that was shek yang.

[Student]
Yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, here we go. You all right? Okay.

This is nam grel and nam nge. So you have to distribute the nam. It's tricky, okay?

What's that mean? Nam grel and nam nge. Two book titles.

Pramanavarttika.

[Student]
In English, please?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The Commentary on Accurate Perception. And the, what do you call that? Ascertaining Accurate Perception, okay?

Or Figuring Out Accurate Perception. These are two different books. Tseman nam nge, which is The Ascertainment of Accurate Perception, is one of the seven great books on logic by Dharmakirti.

So these are both classics by Dharmakirti, okay? He says, look, in the two classics of Dharmakirti, wang she la dup pe, when they describe the holding to the self-nature of things, okay, they describe, Dharmakirti, school number two, not even three, Dharmakirti describes holding to the self-nature of things as wang she la, to the sense powers, like the sense power of the eyes, dup pe, sung dzin ze shen. Relative to the sense powers, the object held and the subject holding it are different substances, not different substances, meaning the blue is part of the mind, okay?

So even Dharmakirti described emptiness as the fact that the subject and the object are made of the same stuff, okay? Got it? Cool.

And he described that not as this emptiness of the person, but the emptiness of things, which is traditionally more difficult to perceive. Okay, chuk gi dang dzin tu, shepa ma tok, that's it. Ma tok means, and it ends there, okay?

The explanation ended there. And he didn't get into ngowo [?].

[Speaker 2]
He didn't get it. And character, I don't know how you just did it there, right above, but it's the essence and its features.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, the object and its qualities. He did not touch that subject, okay? He didn't touch that subject.

Khyepa du, kun takpa rang gi tsen gyi dupe tsenpay chuk gi dang dzin tu chen ne. He didn't cover that meaning of kun tak, which kun tak refers to the mind-only school. Fake, fake things, unreal things.

He didn't get into it. But in the mind-only school, they start getting into kun tak, the gotcha. You can say gotcha, okay?

They start getting into this kind of gotcha. What kind of gotcha? That fire and its heat have no natural connection.

Okay, cool. So, tsen gyi dupe tsenpay chuk gi dang dzin tu chen ne.

[Speaker 2]
But isn't this, the kun tak, isn't that a whole phrase, dang khyepa du kun takpa rang gi tsen gyi dupe? Novo dang khyepa du kun takpa.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ngowo dang khyepa du kun takpa means, that's a good point, okay? The khyepa means connection here. Sorry, the connection between the thing and its qualities is imaginary.

It's not natural. It was artificial. It was invented by people, by karmic seeds.

And ice could have been hot. And you can walk on water, okay? You can change the qualities of the object, okay?

Because they are not naturally connected. Water is not, water is not solid by nature. It's not solid by karmic seeds.

And you could walk on water, and you could change it into wine, which would make us a lot of money.

[Student]
But Jesus said the first thing was good luck [?].

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Well, who believes it? I'm not going there. But generally, okay?

Who identified that connection as that artificial and imaginary connection that was created by, as a construct, kun takpa, to believe that that's a natural connection, rang gi tsen ne kyi dupa, exists by its own definition, okay? Zimba, that's chökyi tamtsen. That's the holding to the self-existence of things, okay?

So now we're distinguishing this school from the second school. In the second school, do they talk about blue and all that? Yeah, they talk about it.

Do they talk about fire and, or water and solidity? No, they don't, okay? DANG DZIN DU BYAS NI NGE'I SUNG BA LTAR NGE'I SUNG BA LTAR means with, NGE'I SUNG means with confidence, with certainty.

DRUG PA DGOG PA'I TSUL Trying to prove that things have a natural connection, and then denying that school, DGOG PA, SEL BA MA ZHES They didn't clearly make those distinctions because they didn't understand them. SEL BA MA ZHES means, SEL BA MA ZHES means, sit here, Vy [?], sit on the couch, it's more comfortable. Did you get dinner?

I got, this sushi is awesome. Yeah, they didn't get it clearly. They didn't explain it clearly.

Cool, you guys?

[Speaker 2]
So, the way to deny that, is that with the DGOG PA'I TSUL?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
They didn't, Clearly explain the way to deny? They didn't manage to deny that things, DRUG PA, existed that way, with the natural connection between fire and heat, okay? They didn't manage to deny it, okay?

And they didn't describe that denial clearly.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, and the they there is the commentary on accurate perception and ascertaining accurate perception by Dharmakirti?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Probably, yeah, probably, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. We're over time.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Wow. Anyway, that was a sexy class.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, thank you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I enjoyed the sushi, I gotta say. Okay. Okay, good job, you guys.

[Speaker 2]
Homework, please.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Oh yeah, let me look at what's coming up and try to find you something interesting. Hang on. That's not so sexy.

Yeah, let's just do the next two sections, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, thank you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
247 and 248, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
All right, see you in five minutes.

[Speaker 2]
No, it's a 10-minute break. Or no, eight now, yeah.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Okay, see you in eight minutes, you guys. All right, everybody. Thank you guys a lot.

[Speaker 2]
Have some great sashi. Sushi.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Yeah, that was great sushi. And we're going next to Adam.

[Speaker 2]
Adam's turn.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Tough work, tough work. Okay, and thanks, you guys.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Thank you.