Как прекратить конфликты в мире: интервью украинскому «Эспрессо TV» (Украина, 2014), занятие 1

[Speaker 1]
Good morning. Anastasia Emelnik is with you in the studio. Michael Roach, my wonderful guest.

It is very nice to see you again. I would like to move on to more private things. We often see what happens in families, for example, when you cannot communicate with a person, even your friends, who have different views, who watch different news than you do.

What to do in such a situation? And move on to a completely specific situation, when a person comes to you and can kill you, despite all your attempts, that you want peace, harmony, whatever, but she just wants to kill you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I had a situation when I was a kid, and we are four brothers, and no father, he left. Then we were always fighting. Then it disturbed me, and I tried to make peace with my brothers.

Then I tried a different system. The brother tried to fight with me. Then sometimes I would say, okay, I will defend myself, and I hit the brother.

[Speaker 1]
Sometimes he stopped.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sometimes he hit me more. Then I thought, if it works sometimes, it is not working.

[Speaker 1]
So I thought, I will try a different system.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
When he hits me, I will just smile. Then he hit me, and I did not defend myself.

[Speaker 1]
I did not fight back.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sometimes it works, but sometimes he hit me more.

[Speaker 1]
So there are four possibilities. If I fight, he stops. If I fight, he does not stop.

If I do not fight, he stops.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Sometimes if I do not fight, he fights me more.

[Speaker 1]
Then I thought, both choices do not work. So to fight or not to fight is the same.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It is the same, and we understand that. In our life, we all had children, we all had fights. We understand that sometimes fighting works, sometimes not.

Sometimes peaceful works, and sometimes peaceful does not work.

[Speaker 1]
So I am not here to tell Ukrainian people, just be peaceful. And I'm also not here to tell them to fight back, because it's obvious. Both are dangerous.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Both can fail. We have to use the pen.

[Speaker 1]
It's a different system. Then in this system, the small people of the country, we have power to change that situation.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We understand that the pen is coming from me. I see a pen because of a seed in my mind. Or my favorite song.

I tell my friend, listen to this song.

[Speaker 1]
I play the song for them.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then they give me the biggest insult. That's interesting.

[Speaker 1]
It means they hate it.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then it means I have a seed in my mind to hear this song as beautiful.

[Speaker 1]
And obviously they have a different seed. So if I change the seed, if each small person in Ukraine, we don't have to depend on the government or army, we can change the situation. Because it's coming from me.

Like my favorite song. Then I have to put a new seed in my mind. There are two steps.

Planting and watering.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Because many people tell me, how did you make $250 million company with seeds?

[Speaker 1]
Then I say, I helped the poor people.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
26 years. I helped the refugees.

[Speaker 1]
Then I plant a seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then money comes to me. I cannot avoid it. It comes every day.

[Speaker 1]
Yesterday I got a million dollars. In the morning, just came. Free.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then they say, but there's a problem with your idea.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they say, my mom, my own mother, she loves to help people.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
There's no lock on our door. Any person can come in and eat our food. One night she came home, there's some guy sleeping in her bed.

Mama, you want me to tell him to leave? It's okay, I sleep on the couch.

[Speaker 1]
But she died poor. So now, two steps. One is plant a seed.

That means with your children, when they fight with you, be peaceful. Your husband, when he says you are stupid, don't answer. Be peaceful with the husband.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
In your job, the boss says you made a mistake.

[Speaker 1]
You just fix the mistake. This plants a seed. So, you said previously, if you won't reply, it won't give you the result that you want.

Well, you plant a good seed. Consciously. If you reply, or you don't reply, do with love.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then you say, I love you, but I cannot do this. What you ask me, I cannot do.

[Speaker 1]
Then you plant a seed. New seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But you must put the water on the seed.

[Speaker 1]
My mom, she gave everything, but she didn't make 250 million dollars. And people ask me, your system doesn't work. It's a bad system, it doesn't work.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
No, my mom didn't put water on the seed.

[Speaker 1]
What is the water on the seed? At night, before you sleep, then you close your eyes.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
You don't sleep. You lay back on your pillow, and you say, today, I did a good thing with my kids.

[Speaker 1]
I did a good thing with my husband, my boss. I tried to make peace.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And I made some good seeds. Those seeds, I did a good thing.

[Speaker 1]
So, in this system, how to put water on the seed, you have to think about yourself. I'm a good person.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
It's the radas [?] ni gordas [?]. Yeah, it's not pride.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I did a good thing, and I send that to all the families affected by this conflict. I send this to the leaders.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I send this to the military people. And I give them the seed for peace.

[Speaker 1]
Each person in Ukraine has the power to do this. You don't have to be a government leader. So, each of us has power to change this situation.

And that's cool.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We don't have to be helpless. Are we fighting? No.

Are we not fighting? No. We are planting seeds, and it will change.

[Speaker 1]
Because it's coming from the seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
So, each person has the power to change it. Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
So, how can we deal with the situation when you are not just talks, but it's a real danger to your life, and you really have to choose either die or not, when person is trying to kill you? So, how can we deal with the situation when it's not just talks, but it's a real danger to your life, and you really have to choose either die or not, when person comes and say, either you leave your house or you will be killed?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
If you fight, maybe they will stop. If you fight, maybe they will hurt you more. If you don't fight, maybe they will hurt you more.

Sorry, if you don't fight, maybe they will stop. All these choices, we know, from the time we are a child, it doesn't work. So, the main thing at that moment, because of fear and anger, we cannot remember the pen.

[Speaker 1]
Too difficult. At that time, there's a saying in Tibet, if you come home, and your mother is in the kitchen, and she went crazy, maybe accidentally she took some drug or something, accidentally, and your own mother, suddenly, comes at you with a big knife, will you kill her?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then everybody say, of course I won't kill my mother. If it's some guy broke into my house, I will self-defense, I will kill him. But if it's my mother, I will grab her, try to take away the knife, some way not to hurt her.

[Speaker 1]
And if she hurts me a little bit, it's okay.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
I will push her on the ground, and I will hold her. So, as much as possible. We don't want to plant a new seed for violence.

We try to find a method to restrain this person, without putting a new bad seed. So that's crucial.

[Speaker 1]
Human nature, if I come home, and my husband is there, and I want him to hug me, but he says, you are stupid. I don't like the dinner you made me. Then, in that moment of pain and anger, it's very difficult to do the right thing.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But we have to remember, if I respond with violence, I will see him again the next week doing the same thing.

[Speaker 1]
So, when someone calls you stupid, and there's pressure, there's tension, or they hit you, then you ... human nature to hit them back and to hate them.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then we must try to grab our mind. This is the meaning of meditation. It doesn't mean like this.

It means, at that moment, meditation means ...

[Speaker 1]
meditation means control my mind. Hold the mind with the mind.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Suppose they say, you are stupid.

[Speaker 1]
Then you have to ...

[Geshe Michael Roach]
you have to say, you ...

[Speaker 1]
hold. Don't make a new bad seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Most important, not to hate those people. When we hate other people, that seed is very powerful. And then we will see new enemies.

[Speaker 1]
And it's a cycle. They hurt me, I hate them. They hurt me, I hate them.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And those new seeds make the enemy for next week.

[Speaker 1]
So it's very difficult to train the mind.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
The mind wants to make a choice.

[Speaker 1]
Fight or don't fight.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Stop thinking like that.

[Speaker 1]
When you're in the pressure, tension, danger, think, I must plant a new seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
And be kind to your children. Be kind to your family.

[Speaker 1]
To your boss. To the other worker. And at night, send that seed to that situation.

It's a new system. It's not fighting, and it's not not fighting. Completely new system.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then what will come from that? For Tibetan people.

[Speaker 1]
When that seed grows, from sending the seed to the families who are split, when that seed grows, it will not grow only in Ukraine.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Ukrainian people will be example for the whole world.

[Speaker 1]
The whole world is watching Ukraine. What will they do?

[Geshe Michael Roach]
How will they react? Then you have a chance to show the world. You are in a fantastic situation.

[Speaker 1]
People are watching you.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
How will they respond to violence? We will love our children.

[Speaker 1]
We will love our families. We will love other people.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We will even love Russian soldiers. And then people will like ...

[Speaker 1]
You have a chance to change the world.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
What you do here. Everybody is watching you. And I think it's a fantastic ...

Something beautiful can come. For example. You are in a situation to help the whole world.

[Speaker 1]
What happened in Ukraine? Yes. We have a power to give an example to the world.

When the bullets came at you, what did you do? We loved our children.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
We took care of the people we don't like in our family. That was our answer.

[Speaker 1]
We planted a new seed.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
Then you are thinking ... Ukrainian people are thinking small.

[Speaker 1]
We want East Ukraine and West Ukraine to stay in the world. But this problem has a real cause.

[Geshe Michael Roach]
But when you ... Don't think small. Don't think to preserve one country.

The response you give it will change the whole world. It will affect the whole world. I think you should think bigger.

[Speaker 1]
You will be an example for the world. Yes, I think so. We had a guest Michael Roach.

He is a teacher, a writer, a philosopher. He is an author of many books and works. He talks about how to protect yourself from conflicts and how to stay calm in such difficult situations.

He is the first American who lived 20 years. He studied. He took a full course.

He lived in a Tibetan monastery for 25 years. He lived in a refugee camp. He is an extraordinary person.

We are very happy to welcome you in our studio. Thank you.